To think the 'Troubles Northern Ireland 1969-1997' ensured the Grammar system stayed in operation In Northern Ireland, thus is now the best education system in the United Kingdom.

Hi OP, I grew up in Belfast during the Troubles and remember the furore at the idea of comprehensive education when it was first mooted My understanding is that it was nothing to with the political situation, rather the absolute refusal of the Grammar schools, supported by the Education Board, to dumb down what was (and still is it seems) the highest level of Education in the UK. Bear in mind, these weren't, in many cases, grammar schools as such. The oldest schools, like BRA, Methody etc, had been opened to give the children of the Planters the same level of education as the English public schools, so there's a whole other aspect to that. It was this system particularly that they did not want to lose.

And the NI exam board, certainly when I was at school, had the reputation of being harder than any of the UK exam boards.

Grammar Schools ate great for the pupils in them.

What about those who are not in them?

We deliberately moved out of an 11+ area in England as it was clear DD wouldn't pass and the other options are dire. But now, over the past few years, she's on track for 6-8s at GCSE (with the 6 being in English where she struggles the most with her dyslexia). Shes doing 8 GCSEs and 1 BTEC as she can mix the academic subjects with the Vocational.

"So what do you see as the purpose of separating children at 11 if the same courses are offered at all schools."
I don't see the point of segregating by religion either (my children go to an integrated primary school). But if it ain't broke don't fix it.
How are lives "ruined" by failing the 11+?

This has been debunked as the role of grammar schools was vastly overstated. The chances of grammar school pupils in the 1960s were vastly improved by full employment as a result of the death toll (and ensuing lost generation) in WWI.

The success of grammar schools in raising the opportunities of working class youngsters had to be put back in the box somehow or it would potentially upset the "natural" order. Traitorous behaviour at the time under the fig leaf of discrimination, by middle class Labour Party so-called supporters.

So what do you see as the purpose of separating children at 11 if the same courses are offered at all schools.

Good, will be easy for the OP making the assertion to back up with links then.

One of my children attended a grammar in NI, the other two attended an integrated secondary.
The two who attended the integrated school were taught very strategic methods of achieving results and both get 1st class degrees although they're actually not very academic.
My daughter also achieved excellent results but is so much more academic and came so close to a 1st but didn't quite get there.
Degree classifications are quite irrelevant but it really encapsulates the difference in the schools for me.
The integrated students were taught how to work the system to best advantage and it's stuck with them.They didn't learn Latin or study French, German and Spanish but they aimed at a 1st class degree and pursued it relentlessly. Daughter has a really well grounded educational backgrounds, her siblings not so much.She takes a huge pride in being a grammar school alumni, her siblings don't really reflect on their school background.

OP, the grammar school system is regressive and unfair.

I have taught in state comprehensives for 20 years and have sent children to both Cambridge and straight to work. I celebrate all of their achievements.

Lives are ruined by arbitrary tests at 10 years old. Anyone with any knowledge of child development knows it’s a marathon, not a sprint.

There are indeed stats that show pupils in NI do better at GCSE & A level than their counterparts in the rest of the UK - can easily be found with a quick Google.

"Are you sure a grammar system is equally good for those that don't pass?"

Every year in 6th lower at the rural grammar school I went to, there was an intake of pupils from the high school who had come to do their A levels, having done well at GCSE. So they got another bite at the cherry. I work with some people who went to the high school- they said they had good teachers and their level of education is good.

Our grammar system in NI is fantastic but I do really feel for any child that ends up in a regular academy/high school - they are so underfunded in comparison to the rest of the UK and I believe that it’s ridiculous that a test taken at age 10/11 can effectively ruin a child’s future in some circumstances.

My own DD excelled at the 11+ and went to a high profile Belfast grammar. It does always amaze our family over in England etc that she had such a wonderful education for free, meanwhile they’re paying £££££ for private schooling with lesser results.

Have you got stats to show NI gets better results?

Hants is an all comp county with good schools.

Are you sure a grammar system is equally good for those that don't pass?
There is so much angst about 11+ it is nice to live in an area where it isn't needed.

I think the system in NI isn’t perfect but no one has really articulated an alternative.