To think that some women care more about their careers than their families and that this isn’t always a good thing?

100%, this is me too. I climbed to quite a senior level before having kids, which means I do get to have more flexibility than most because not many people can do my job.

This is exactly my point! Men think nothing of describing themselves as family men, I’ve started describing myself as a family
woman as an act of micro feminism. If it makes anyone think twice, I’ve made my point

Well no but if they were privately educated, so in school all day, and your husband worked away a lot - it seems a fair stretch to claim anyone was with them full time.

I think there are some parents who use their work as a means of avoiding spending more time with their children than they can cope with, yes. I see men like this everywhere. I do see women like this too (though to a lesser extent). Especially people on the autistic spectrum actually - they need the routine of a job and don't understand how to get through a day with kids on your own, when nobody is structuring the day for you and you have to just make it up as you go. They don't even see the point of spending more time with their kids. They think seeing them in the evenings is "doing it all."

They know they can't cope with more than a few hours a day,, so they overly identify with the importance of their work to justify this, rather than just admitting, "you know what, I find long stints with my kids too boring or overwhelming."

Men have been able to do this since living memory. Women do this too, though it's harder for them to admit.

Too many people desperately overestimate the importance of what are, in essence, fairly mundane jobs in the scheme of things. Some people make their work role their whole identity, even though nobody really has a clue or cares what it is they actually do. It's usually men, and it's very tedious. But there are women like this too.

Given my children are now in their 30s and live independently your point is mute.

Of course it’s teamwork. My children too were privately educated from prep school then to University. I did go back to work part time when they were 11/12.

More women work part time or find hours around school time or WFH and subsequently have to work around their children a lot than men do. They’re also still generally paid less than men.

More women also still pick up most of the slack with their children and the household whilst working than men. I think there are still huge disparities here between the sexes by and large and you would find far more men prioritising work over their family than women.

My personal favourite was when a male employee informed me he wouldn’t take instruction from his mother.

Cool. This isn’t your house, and I’m not your mother.

Absolutely.

That would be because he’s a man. Because as a female leader, trust me, they push back.

Sorry, it was your comment “What century am I in” made me think you thought that flexible working was the norm. The clue is in non-operational roles. I’m also ex-civil service. Where my husband works there is a degree of flexibility. His team predominately WFH and he does allow parents to do school pick up as long as the work gets done. Sad to say he does have female staff who are reluctant to travel overseas who don’t want to leave their children for 1-2 weeks at a time especially if the children are pre-school and he’s had to be firm and insist they go. He’s never got such pushback from male staff.

but he never faces any pushback from male staff.

Exactly. I think some people don't understand this.

The only reason why I can be so flexible now is because I didn't go part time or stop working completely which means I have a big say over my schedule and by the time they are in school? I won't need to use wraparound care at all due to the flexibility I only have by working full time and my senior role.

I disagree with the OP, in that I think every woman I know prioritises their children in their own way (whether by working FT++ with oodles of paid help, or by being a SAHP, or anything in between). Whatever they have to do and choose to do to work things as best as possible for their individual families and circumstances.

My partner and I personally feel that it is important for our children to have some time with us during the week. We wouldn’t feel comfortable with the children having to be taken to school and put to bed by a nanny most days. In our field, flexible working and WFH is not really possible. As such, I’ve made the choice to move sideways in my career to something similar that enables me to stay and finish at more reasonable times. Partner could have done similar - but one of us needed to in order to get a balance we were comfortable with.

I’m thrilled that I get to be a rubbish feminist as I’ve allowed my kids to impact my career, whilst also being a rubbish mum as my children still need wraparound care most days.

"help out" is such a strange phrase to use in relation to your own home and family. Reminds me of when men are described as hands on parents

How can you know that though? You can’t, because you didn’t go out to work so there’s no counterfactual. I could happily claim that my child benefited from me working but again I can’t know that. Its my prejudice against yours.

The difference is you had a choice and I didn’t.

I’d assume, she believes women should rely on men financially.

Couldn’t be me. Ever.

Stable childhoods don't come as well from parents being around 24/7. They come from children knowing their parents love them, care for them, nurture them and keep them safe. Working parents provide this just as much as stay at home parents.

Both my parents worked and I could not have asked for more better loving parents or a happier childhood. And I'm immensely proud of my everything my mum achieved in her career, she was a fantastic role model for me growing up.

In some ways, the more successful you are, the more flexibility you can negotiate. I was a sahm for years...now I work full time but I don't have a successful career...just a job. I don't get much flexibility because lots of people could do my job. The higher your worth, the more you can negotiate I think.

@Scottishlassie10

Right…so what do you think should happen then….mum goes on benefits or puts herself in the VERY precarious position of being dependant on a man??! Sounds pretty shit to me…

Some women are indeed snippy and judgemental about SAHMs. I have seen some really nasty posts.

But as @SouthLondonMum22 says it works both ways. The classic of the genre is “Why did you bother having children to farm them out to childcare?”

And lets not forget this thread was started by someone claiming that working mums “prioritise careers over their families”.

Working parents are still there for their DC’s. Do you think working parents are not 100% making decisions about their DC’s lives and there for them?
It’s teamwork - DH’s and I have always both worked full time and have very successful careers. DC’s have benefited hugely from that - in role models and in the best nursery, schooling and university that money can provide. They have travelled around the world and had a huge range of experiences.

It’s a ridiculous argument. Like anyone is sat at home like “I wonder if they’ll throw up today!”

That’s some very anxious parenting if they are.

I agree there are instances where women have no choice. I’ve never said it’s damaging. All I said was my children benefited from having me not working when they were younger.

Why are you assuming I am naive? I’m in the civil service which hires half a million people and my set up is pretty standard in non operational roles. It’s pretty standard across my profession outside of the public sector also. I haven’t said anywhere that everyone has flexible working. But it’s not that rare. Heck even my police staff family members WFH!

I never understand this argument as well about being parents being on stand by in case their ill.

So I'll give up my career and earning potential and the financial benefits it brings to our family just to hang about the house all day on the off chance my child might become ill from school/nursery and need picked up. Right.

Or I can do which is what both my parents did and what most parents do, is go to work and if they are ill, either my or my husband will go pick them up and take them home.