Why are abusive men so good at playing the long game?

Because you report a post and it gets deleted.

i hurt feelings by pointing out the bleeding obvious. The child is seven and stands absolutely no chance of seeing through the actions of an abuser if the mother failed to do so. I obviously should have just offered a hand hold and my sympathies which I’m also happy to extend. .

I always have to remind myself that as an adult I fell for my ex's act, so I can't blame my nearly 7 year old and 3 year old. My eldest has recently noticed some things, understands dad isn't kind to or about mummy, things like that. I just listen and ask however feels about it. Telling your child anything negative about the other parent will only feed that narrative that you're the bad guy that is being sold to your son by his dad. But even though my son is starting to figure things out, he still can't wait to see his sad and asked me recently to apologise and that we need to move on. It's hard seeing him slowly realise things, but he needs to do it as his own pace, a bit like how I did while in the relationship, but my kids will have me every step of the way who understands and supports them.

In the meantime, I an looking into play therapy for my kids so they have a safe place to work through their feelings as kids can often feel they are to blame, and to also work through the mixed messages they are receiving.

I am also choosing books which help, our most recent one is 'The Sky Is Red' which helps kids to challenge what people say them. I'm teaching the kids skills like questioning, a favourite game is 'face or opinion', we do things like baked beans are the best food ever and discuss if it is a fact or opinion, and then when eldest has friendship disagreements we use it in real life context. But I never actually discuss dad, unless he brings it up. I also talk about choosing family and friends Then I tell him he's allowed to feel that way, I repeat back to him what he has said so he feels listened to and I understand.
Also make sure school are fully informed.

Thank you. I started by asking him 'what do you think of that?' To gauge where he was in his thinking. Then built up from there. I'm determined he won't be abusive himself or be a victim of an adult abusive relationship. 🙏

There’s always a twat appears on these threads. And today it’s you @EvangelicalAboutButteredToast

I am so sorry for what you have been through, OP. You son is 7 - he might be drawn to the masking Disney-dad for now, but it won't last. The mask will fall and your child will see through his dad, and also come to value and cherish the stability, love and security you provide him. I would urge you also to play the long game. Just focus on providing your child with the love and security you clearly appear to be doing, and trust him to make the right choices and have the right judgment. He will in time and with maturity. Sending lots of positive and healing thoughts your way.

Humans have “axioms of belief” that we live by. The sun is hot. Water is wet. Christmas is fun. Etc etc.

It is very hard to convince yourself that one of these is not true. Even with huge amounts of evidence.

“Daddies are good” is pretty constant in the media etc so it will be really hard for your son to break out of this.

A very frivolous example of this is that years ago my husband and best friend threw me a surprise party. Looking back afterwards there were so many clues and signs. I must have been a complete idiot to not realise. But I did not have a clue. Because “there is no party on Saturday” was one of my “life axioms”.

I don’t know if they are.
The truth is they reveal themselves pretty quickly in retrospect. I look back and it was all there within six months. It’s just that you don’t want to see it and you’re so invested in it not being the case.
That we try and see the good people
Which is why we rely on others to point out the floors if people have lost their support crew and people who are vested in the individual succeeding in life
It’s very difficult to navigate

Abusers need victims. I am sure that when you and your ex were first together, that he wasn't a brutal aggressive rapist - that part of his personality only showed itself later, when he'd got you entangled in the relationship. He is the same with your son. Eventually his true nature will come out.

I agree with the poster who said that it may be time to start giving your son an age-appropriate version of the truth

I’m so sorry you went through that. But you sound amazing at raising your boy and being a constant in his life. Yes unfortunately your son will see the fun side of him and will be taken with him, but that’s just normal for a child. One day, one day he will see through it. They can’t keep up appearances forever.

"I've spent a lot of time teaching my son about right and wrong and the way people treat each other. I've pointed out things on TV and podcasts and explained manipulative behaviour. Around 7 he started making complaints about him lying etc. And I was very honest and said yes, he sometimes lies, it's not something we do in our family, but unfortunately it's a habit your dad has"

Good advice!!

Oh my god, I'm so sorry for the awful responses you've had, didn't see them as deleted, but I can guess. Ignore these awful, ignorant people.

My experience has been similar, but we've only recently gone to court. Up until about 7 my son thought his dad was amazing. But then the cracks started to show. I've spent a lot of time teaching my son about right and wrong and the way people treat each other. I've pointed out things on TV and podcasts and explained manipulative behaviour. Around 7 he started making complaints about him lying etc. And I was very honest and said yes, he sometimes lies, it's not something we do in our family, but unfortunately it's a habit your dad has.

Even doing all this, it still took him a full year to tell me what his dad was doing to him. Despite me always telling him to tell me if anyone did anything he didn't like. I stopped contact and my son never wants to see him again. He has told the everyone involved that he never wants to see him and we finally have a court order for no direct contact.

My son sees him for who he is. In my experience they have to take it out on someone, and when his older sister stopped going there that's when he turned on my son. Now he's lost contact with me and my son, he's turned on his older half sister again.

I guess you could stop contact if you're concerned and go to court again, but while your son wants to see him they will probably give him contact. It's such an awful situation to be in. I felt helpless for so long. Sorry I don't have anything concrete for you to go on. ❤️

Why was your post deleted then?
Op needs support not a lecture

I agree with this.
I would try to arm him with enough information about his dad to 1. Protect himself against him and 2. Understand that his behaviour isn't normal 3. Understand how you are behaving so he doesn't blame you.

Your ex has already got his hooks in him. I would be very worried that he's going to be brainwashed

I suppose it’s the only way they can reel women in.
Sorry, OP

No one said anything hateful at all 🤷‍♀️

it’s always easier to be angry at people who point out the bleeding obvious.

Sorry. It’s just hard having abusers in your life. I ended up marrying one too so my children had to put up with it too until they were teenagers and could see through it. They haven’t had anything to do with him for years and I have totally protected them from him after they realised what he was (and I was able to extricate them from his grip)
I suppose the difference is that I was never protected and everything was minimised or brushed under the carpet/hidden from view. That’s what has made me feel very unloved over the years.
I can see you’re not doing that with your son x

The messages were deleted so, although I couldn’t read the - clearly - hateful words, I can certainly imagine what was said.

1. Fuck those people.
2. What a godawful situation you are in, that should not be minimised.
3. I’m certain that when your son is old enough he will see his father for what he is. I think that all you can do is what you’re obviously doing: providing a safe, loving home with clear and healthy boundaries. That man is odious and toxic and will let your son down in a myriad of ways in the future. He’s doing the unforgivable thing of using your son to fuck with your head and screw up your life in whatever way he can. These men do not change. Ever.
4. I’m so sorry you have this to deal with, but please know that the majority of people are not vicious and hateful trolls. I don’t know what goes on in their heads that make them spew such hateful comments and frankly I don’t want to. Please refer to point 1.

Can you move far away?

I don’t know how this works and understand parental alienation is a problem you don’t want to be accused of - just interested in how come lots of people are encouraged to not inform the child of the dad’s true nature? Surely if you (not op specifically) know someone is dangerous in a particular way, you warn the child so they know? This is not a dig - it is a genuine question. Is it courts that say you can’t or is it that people think it would upset the kid to find out their dad is nasty?

like in adoption, they say now it’s best to give the kid an understanding of their background and birth parents’ situation (in an age appropriate way) from an early stage in most cases. And facilitate access with birth parents safely (letters, visits, etc) if possible - if not then not. So why are kids who are not adopted not able to get the same support to understand their background? Is there guidance on this?

I'd be inclined to start telling him some form of the truth.

That his dad used to hurt you and for a long time, the police/court said he couldn't have contact as it wasn't safe.

He needs to learn that adults can put on an act and appear very nice, but actually they might not be.

I finally realised that my ex had no thoughts, feelings, deeds that he didn’t think through first thinking “what’s my goal/how can I make this work for me/how can I get admiration/validation”

with some people it’s so intrinsic and automatic it’s like breathing.

All you can do is hope for the best and plan for the worst. I’d suggest you document and record every interaction you or your son have with him. My ex would say one thing, then do the complete opposite. He kept changing his mind as time progressed because different/better options came along. Don’t trust anything he says until it happens. Protect yourself and your son.

I had similar when I divorced and my much older DD thought her dad could do no wrong. My therapist answered that sooner or later, she would see through him, and she has - but it’s been very difficult for her.

It makes it more important that you are always consistent, honest and reliable with your child. Think of yourself as the steadfast rock in the stormy sea that your child can cling to, when he inevitably gets cast adrift by his unreliable father.

I probably seem a little dramatic, but I’ve been deeply scarred by my experience.

I agree with pp who said narcissist. They want to look like the good guy so do all they can to keep up the image - unless you cross them or you're the scape goat.

By being obsessed with him, DS is providing supply to his dad and as long as he keeps that up he'll want to keep him around. He'll want to look like a great dad and he'll want to win against you and get his son living with him. He'd soon lose interest then no doubt once the drudgery of day to day parenting sets in.

It's all very messy and difficult OP and i don't think there's any easy answers. His dad is probably the master of manipulation and perfectly charming when he wants to be and it's hard to fight that when they can be so convincing to others. All you can do I guess is be there consistently for your son and hope his dad gets bored/tired of his Disney dad games. If he meets someone else there's every chance he'll start focusing on them and stop bothering with your son. Sadly your son is likely to end up hurt one way or another by him, all you can do is be there to pick up the pieces if it does happen.

Yes that’s true.
I wish I had been aborted sometimes- I did a lot when I was younger as my abusive father was/is so much to bear.
edit- my mother told me I was ‘the result of a quick shag on the carpet’ and ‘don’t have a child young it will ruin your life’ (she was 21 when she had me)

The child of an abusive man is the victim, abusive men are abusive and will be abusive to children the victim is not to blame, but abusive men will always be abusive, the children of abusive men have to navigate the relationship with them as best they can