DD hasn’t changed one bit

I understand, it can be so hard and I think it can also be tricky from the outside to realise how impossible some people make any communication.

My child's Father will not respond to me. There have been times I have had to contact his own parent to say his child was in hospital. Now our shared child is older, he can message him but I could then message their Dad and he would totally ignore it.
Coercive control amongst others started once I was pregnant and thankfully I got out at 11 months but it has left its mark.

Have you done the freedom programme or had any support like that? I did have a pattern of picking the "wrong" men. Like you, they would seem lovely at first but I do think sometimes they did prey on vulnerabilities that I didn't realise I was showing. I am not saying it's my fault, they should not be abusive regardless but it did help me to learn about the different things I could do and what to look out for early on.

You are amazing for leaving two abusive relationships. Leaving is so scary and I know it's your daughter who you did it for.

I would be scared still to do this but I think you need to text her Dad or email, keep it grey rocked and plain and let him know when he can't speak to her like that. Maybe block his number on her phone.
She is so young, I think it's too much for her to make this decision because she may feel guilty about him being her Dad though he doesn't deserve it!

If she really does want contact with him, perhaps something like email would help?

I'd be blocking that shit from her and making her know that she's done nothing wrong, his behaviour is abusive and unacceptable, it's OK to have boundaries and he is a first class example of who not to get involved with. Don't let her repeat the cycle of abuse.

This...

@Heriam
Assuming your Dad is still around - Would he be able to have supportive convos about what good relationships with men look like... ? That dad's should be nurturing, loving and supportive... Not anxiety inducing and terrorising.
And the sort of abusive behaviour from men, girls should never tolerate?

Your ex sounds so appalling I really don't think it's a good idea for her to be around him...

Wtf with the loudspeaker??

When I'm at home, I'm often on loudspeaker... Not that I'm not listening just that I'm doing sth with my hands, like chopping food!

I'm wondering, he doesn't want her on loudspeaker in case anyone else can hear him abusing her?

You seem very astute to your ex's behaviour... But equally suspect you've been damaged by it... In that you end up not knowing which way is up, what's acceptable...

Please protect your lovely girl at all costs!

Get lost! You obviously have no understanding or experience of abusive relationships. Your post isn't helpful or supportive in any way.
So because her ex didn't show his true self until it was too late, does this mean that OP and her child should have to suffer because of his choices????? He's a fully grown man who can decide his own actions.... yet you blame the victims?

I do really appreciate your advice and other posters advice for both me and OP, thank you.
Perhaps I need to reevaluate what I’m teaching her.

This is why I love MN! 💐

Yes I do understand where you’re coming from Eyeshadow

however this:
Now I don’t slag him off but as she’s gotten older I will tell her his behaviour is not appropriate and I have spoken to her about control and to not give in as that’s exactly what they want.

I personally think you’re being too passive - I’d be telling her in straight terms exactly what I thought of his behaviour and how abusive it is. Get angry! Then let her make her own informed decision. Have you asked her exactly why she wants him in her life? What she gets from him (I can’t imagine it’s anything good)? Can she answer that?

Ripping up her spreadsheet - I mean, he’s just a piece of shit. Who does that to a child? I’d just want him out of her life immediately before he can do any more damage.

I really hope she finds the strength to tell him to get lost for good.

No don’t be sorry as I appreciate your honesty.

Its very difficult because I would never want to stop a relationship.
It is not up to me to dictate who she can and can’t speak to - else I become the controlling one.

I think too many mothers stop or make it difficult for the dads to see the kids because they put their own feelings above the kids and it’s the kids who ultimately suffer and feel unloved.

So it’s about trying to find the right balance which I admit I found very difficult and have definitely made mistakes in the past as I have tried too hard for him to be involved in her life (luckily he never had much interest).

Fortunately he does not see her in person but she wouldn’t want to see him now anyway.

And she has gotten to an age where I will be honest about controlling behaviour and she knows exactly what he’s like and he can’t manipulate her anymore but i wish I spoke more negatively about him when she was younger and if i was OP I would be more honest and encourage a break from him.

But I also think there’s a balance between protecting your child and also letting them learn their own boundaries and putting them in place.
Obviously it depends on the age and emotional maturity of the child but me taking over and blocking his number from her is going to be less effective than her taking control and ignoring him.

Don't say sorry. He sounds like a coercive abuser and your DD is better off with no contact with him whatsoever.

This is abuse though. He’s abusing your dd - you need to get tough here, as does the OP.

What other posters are saying (I’m not sure it is sinking in?) is that children/teenagers often don’t have the emotional or verbal capacity to deal with this kind of behaviour. They are brought up being told they have to listen to and respect their parents/grown ups. But that isn’t true if the grown up is a vile piece of shit who treats them badly.

Your ex has basically deliberately set your dd up there to fail - he has no intention of buying her a present. He enjoys manipulating and upsetting her. If my ex did that to my DD he would never see her again - it’s evil. Can’t you see that?? Get these shitty men out of your dd’s lives for the love of God!

Your dd’s may not feel they have the authority or power to tell their sperm donor’s to get lost for good. I’d be changing their phone numbers and letting their dads take me to court if necessary (they won’t though - these pathetic specimens never do)

Show them that YOU will not tolerate them being treated like this and stop being so passive. This is one thing you should be getting very, very tough about. Stop allowing these losers to cause damage to your children.

Im sorry but I think you need some straight talking.

Please alert her school safeguarding team so that they can support her. Ask that they do a programme with her specifically around healthy relationships and continue to offer her support as she goes through this. There is no freedom programme for children but school safeguarding teams can and should support children like her in these situations.

Teach your daughter how to instill boundaries and lead by example.

For what it's worth I hate having conversations with someone who is doing something else because it's rude so I always end the call quickly with 'you're busy, call me when you're free'.

Change her phone number and make sure he can't contact her.

OP I could write the exact same thread.
My DDs dad (when he’s involved) is a controlling bully.

He’s currently not speaking to her because he asked what she wanted for Xmas (first time ever he’s thought about getting a gift) and she responded with something that is about £30.
He had a go at her and told her that she shouldn’t just ask like that and she needs to create a presentation with reasons why she wants this gift and why it sill be useful.
She spent hours on this bloody PowerPoint presentation and sent it to him - I am bias but it was really good.
He ripped it to shreds and couldn’t find 1 good thing to say about it and so she’s not getting anything.
She told him that was unfair and that most parents buy their kids a Xmas present and he had a go at her for speaking back to him and hasn’t spoken to her in 2 months.

Its difficult because you don’t want to talk negatively about their parent and influence their opinion based on your experience - some people are awful partners but good parents.

But you also want to teach them that certain behaviour is unacceptable and it does not matter if that person is related to you or you’re in a relationship with them.

I probably should have been a bit more vocal from a younger age but wanted her to know her dad.
Now I don’t slag him off but as she’s gotten older I will tell her his behaviour is not appropriate and I have spoken to her about control and to not give in as that’s exactly what they want.

I always talk about how lucky he is to have such an amazing DD and that she is the prize that he should be making an effort to see and impress and try and get her in his life.
I will also say sorry you have such a shit dad (mines older), so I am validating that he is shit and it’s ok for her to be upset.

Cut him off. Why have such a horrible person in your life. He'll do her more harm than good and obviously he has a mental illness or condition or something.

I hardly ever say this, but she would absolutely be better off without him.

She's only 12 and her response to him by text sounds more mature and reasonable than anything he's said to her. Poor girl - I really feel for her (and for you). He's a horrible, domineering bully and she's clearly scared of him.

He’s an abusive bully. Encourage your daughter to cut him out of her life. The last thing she needs is a father like that. Don’t allow him to bully her please.

@WilfredsPies Thank you 😊

@CactusSammy

People told me that a child needs to decide for themselves, but if I had my time again, I would have stopped him from seeing her long ago. Ultimately, all being around a father like that does is batter a child's self confidence, and make them feel like they're constantly in the wrong. It makes them feel worthless I don’t think you should regret your decision. These men damage their children either way. She’d have felt just as worthless thinking that she wasn’t good enough for him to stick around or want to have any kind of relationship with her. I don’t think there is anything you could have done that would have prevented the damage he caused.

Your dd sounds brilliant, you have clearly done a great job.

My daughter has been through this exact same thing with her father.

He is angry, abusive and bitter. We split up when she was 1 year old, and I continued to let her see him because my family pressured me to, against my better judgement.

I could not count the number of times she came home crying. I would never make her see him, sometimes she didnt want to, but I always told her it was her choice.

Ultimately, she decided in her late teens to cut him off completely, but this was after years of not seeing him for months on end, trying again in the hopes that he would be different, and then realising he wasnt. The last time she saw him, he started yelling at her before she'd even left our house. And that was the end.

People told me that a child needs to decide for themselves, but if I had my time again, I would have stopped him from seeing her long ago. Ultimately, all being around a father like that does is batter a child's self confidence, and make them feel like they're constantly in the wrong. It makes them feel worthless.

Tell him to fuck off. Your daughter will thank you in the end.

What do you mean by ‘But’? But what?

If she can set such firm boundaries with her own dad at 12 then she has a much higher chance of successfully steering clear of scummy people when she dates @Heriam you should be so proud of her, and I really hope it carries through to her adult life but please don’t rely on her being able to do this. It rarely works out that way. I cut my father off when I was about 12. I still made some terrible, terrible decisions that had huge and life altering consequences in my life. I have several friends who did the same thing, all with the same results.

I don’t know whether it’s because we had no idea what a healthy relationship looked like, or because aggression, violence, manipulation and abandonment felt familiar and therefore comforting, whether we were trying to re-write history or whether we chose these men because we all had commitment issues because all we knew of men were that they caused problems and pain (possibly a combination of all of them) but having a parent like this can alter your ability to make healthy decisions, even if you’ve cut that parent off. And I didn’t even realise what I was doing, or why. It literally only clicked for me when someone pointed out that if I kept picking the same sort of men, then I would keep having the same sort of problems.

After a lot of hard work, I’m now married to a man who could not be more different from my father if he tried. He is a good man and I love him madly. But if counselling had been a thing when I was a child, My God, my life would have been so much easier.

I agree with the others who have suggested counselling. It means that she can have someone neutral to talk to about it which would make it easier for you as well.

Why did that post upset you so much, OP? Most of what's been said isn't unreasonable.