To think budgeting culture has become joyless?

I think you have got this the wrong way round - not having enough money can be joyless, budgeting just means you don't go into debt whilst not having enough money. If you have sufficient money, you can either just buy stuff, or indeed budget for hot drinks if you value them. It's the lack of money which is the issue, surely?

There’s a happy medium I admit but I prefer not to spend my money on hot drinks out (unless out a full day or longer) I’d rather go to the pub or a restaurant for a meal

Even if you’ve asked online (for example I asked once about what to do with my £x leftover each month) and got dragged into a debate about whether the amount I spend on my phone is okay, when I can afford it!!

Yep, unless you have specifically asked for advice on money then people should shut up about your spending.

I’m a bit fed up of people telling me I spend my money in a silly way because I choose to spend on things they wouldn’t. I budget for a nice phone because I want that, I budget some fun money because I like buying things.

Nail on the head there. We're the same. Still take flasks and packed lunches, but happy to buy a meal in a cafe/restaurant if we think it's worthwhile and we'd derive joy from doing so. We certainly wouldn't get joy from paying several pounds for a random/average cup of coffee in a chain or random cafe just because we couldn't be arsed to pre-prepare and take our own!!

My parents never took us to cafes or bought us food on the hop, despite being mortgage-free and having tens of thousands in the bank. They think they were just being sensible. I'm pleased my own children get the enjoyment of a cafe visit every couple of months or a treat at the school fair. I find far more joy in the small moments of everyday life than a big holiday.

Also, is buying coffees daily or even several times a week a city thing? I work in a semi-rural area and am 95% sure all the people I work with only have take-away coffees at the weekend, if at all. It just doesn't fit into your day here as you would never find yourself walking past a Costa or whatever and would have to drive out of your way to get to one.

Budgeting brings joy to me, not because of the budgeting itself, but because of the feeling of empowerment of being in control of the money, and using a budget to save and build up a lot of savings, retirement funds, and have money to spend on things that give genuine enjoyment like holidays, a new car, nice clothes, posh restaurant meals, etc. I've been "budgeting" since my first part time job aged 16, where I worked out how much I had to save each week from my tiny wage (cleaning and changing beds in a manky guest house a couple of hours per day), in order to buy things I wanted, such as my first portable colour TV for my bedroom, then first video recorder, then first hifi/cd system - which I did over time before I was 18, just saving a few pounds per week but with a clear end goal in sight which incentivised me to save rather than waste on rubbish.

By the time I got a full time job (still grossly underpaid as it was a dead end office dogsbody) with a more realistic weekly wage, I was well and truly in the savings/budgeting habit, which meant I could match my OH pound for pound for meals out, holidays, etc even though he had a much better job than me. Being equal was important for me as I didn't want to be "kept". I couldn't have done it without budgeting.

Luckily OH/DH was also good with money, so we worked well together, no problems with getting into debt or credit card statements we couldn't pay off in full every month. Between us, we managed to buy our cars outright without finance/loans (sometimes brand new, sometimes ex demo etc), just by saving beforehand, using virtual "savings pots".

We did all that without scrimping and saving and doing without things. We just didn't waste money on things that we didn't need (like coffees out when we could take a flask - and still do!), and always planned major purchases in advance working backwards to timescales of saving £x per week/month to finance such purchases. A lot of the time, actually thinking about things and putting a time delay on the purchase (to save) meant we properly thought things through and often decided not to bother buying it because we realised we didn't need it, so avoided wasting a hell of a lot of money.

It's the way I grew up in the 60s. Habits of a lifetime to save not borrow and not to waste money. I would never dream of buying a takeaway coffee but happy to go to a cafe for drinks regardless of cost. Took a packed lunch all my working life but happy to go to a restaurant for a meal and not count the cost.
So I guess it's getting the balance right between depriving yourself of pleasure or treats and wasting money unnecessarily.
It means I have savings which I wouldn't otherwise have.

YANBU.

I have never successfully stuck to a budget. Every time I have tried to have one it hasn’t worked. My life is too unpredictable / spontaneous to allocate fixed amounts for certain things. In the last month I have spent $2,260 on festival tickets for next summer. Next month it will likely be zero. I buy things as and when from my paycheck / current account. The idea of ‘pots’ feels very restrictive to me.

Not having a budget does mean I fritter money on coffees and lunches and the like, yes, but that’s a small price to pay to retain spontaneity in my life (which gives me endless joy!).

Mumsnet is full of competitive frugality 🤣

Disagree.
Budgetting is permission to spend in the areas that are a priority for you.

I had a man make a dig at me in the.local shop because my son asked for a box of chocolates and I said yes. He said oo must be nice to be on benefits 😂 this guy had no idea who I was, or what I do 😂 his wife gave him a worse look than I did. God forbid you buy your kids chocolate once in a while. People are just insane, simple 😂

I let the savings mount up while drinking coffee at home. It’s how I lived every day for a year travelling to 39 countries from South America to East and South Asia. 12 months of seeing everything from Ankor Wat to skiing in Japan, snorkelling through Thailand, the Avatar mountains of China, dune surging in an oasis in Peru, seeing flamingos in Bolivia and dancing through Rio!

It’s not about being miserable with chunks of savings for me. It’s about saving so I can spend it on more memorable moments than a cup of shit coffee in a Costa near Milton Keynes.

Take more from where, from who?

I buy coffee out of my salary. I don’t take it from anyone?

Being poor is joyless.

Being careful doesn't have to be.

Richer friend telling me not to buy a treat is an arse.

Maybe. She says she gets it takeaway so sounds like she drinks it from a paper cup while rushing off somewhere. Hardly a luxury experience.

Having to account for every single penny in order to still not cover the absolute basics does feel incredibly joyless. Those of you who take more than your fair share don't usually care so long as it's someone else doing the scrimping. Are you now carping that you shouldn't even have to see the inequalities you benefit from?

Agree

We have specific money set aside for treats so we know we can afford them and won't rob anything else by having those small treats

I’m a Starbucks “Gold” member, and Costa have just sent me a birthday present.

The woman at our local drive thru tells me what I’d like when I pull up.

I am not ashamed of any of the above 😂

Buying the odd hot drink and treats like that are the very point of doing my job and having had the luck, drive, initiative and intelligence to get to the role I'm in. I work to live, every day, and enjoy nice things, not to feel virtuous huddling round an instant coffee in a cheap mug, watching savings mount up I might die before I get to enjoy.

It shouldn’t but it does if you do have to account for every penny. Life is very expensive, jobs are very insecure, a lot of people can’t afford to risk frittering away their money on frivolities.

@BluePeterAdventWreath , I do it so infrequently that it is a treat, but I'll usually try to make sure that the cafe is a really nice one. It's a bit more expensive but more memorable.
Just sitting in a chain coffee bar wouldn't be the same.

A few comments about how people should take a flask or make coffee at home instead of going to cafes. It seems that some people do "care" (it is not really caring... more giving unsolicited advice).
Buying coffee out puts money back into the economy, and cafes going so keeps people in jobs.

Agree with this. It's a treat so long as long as it fees like a treat.