Just been told to remove my pronouns from my Teams profile

Yes. But none of this implies anything about "most" trans people does it?

A large number of terrorist attacks in the UK have been carried out by Muslims. Does this mean there is a radical aspect to Islam that is a concern? Certainly. Does it mean "most" Muslims are terrorists? Of course not.

I’m not in the uk but in my country bullying and harassment is illegal. You don’t get to decide that your opinion whether someone should feel threatened is the key. You’ve been told by your manager that your actions have made someone uncomfortable. Your actions aren’t defensible (no employment tribunal would accept your response). So having been instructed to take action of you continue as you are be ready to lose job.

Yes they’re enforcing inclusion and a change in language. But you don’t really have a say. Just like the men who are sacked for refusing to refer to women professionally even though they hate being forced to use new language whwn they don’t want women in the workplace as their equals. Just like you can’t be racial, or homophobic, or use ableist slurs. And your colleague is entitled to a safe workplace and you are clearly hostile towards certain communities of people. Your choice of language is a pointer to your hostility, which is reinforced by your subsequent comments.

Hm. What you said there sounds, with respect. much more idealogical than philosophical and I would much prefer that a discussion about' language 'and' being' and 'space ' take place than some loaded argument about males piggybacking on the territory of females. I think there is an argument to be had for creating new language and thinking in new ways because clearly people dont fit into neat categories in the way they present themselves and behave. And,yes, maybe trans people need to have a reset in their thinking. And yes i do believe in safe spaces for females. But i think some of the heat and hatred should go out of this. We need evolved thinking snd language to be able to support the ' whole" of what is going on. We're just not there yet.

I work somewhere that would be considered very 'woke' and I don't have my pronouns in my signature at all, because it isn't compulsory. I'd think it quite unprofessional if I saw your signature as 'take a wild guess'. It's just there to wind people up really isn't it? It's now created a pointless extra job for your boss who has to raise it with you.

Unfortunately it’s the radical types that tend to ruin it for everyone.

I have no issue with someone who finds it didficult to live in the world presenting as their biological sex, and who wants to dress or present themselves differently - so long as they stay out of the single sex spaces they don’t belong in.

That’s not hatred, it’s acknowledging reality.

I follow some detransitioners on X. Sadly, they definitely seem to feel that they have been abused by the gender ideology as teenagers.

I'm all for them living their best life but why do I need to change the way I speak? I don't believe in gender: if they do, great but leave me alone

OP I am a manager and I would have no issues with anyone not wanting to add pronouns to their profile/email. It should be completely optional.

However I would think that a staff member who adds something like "take a wild guess" is being unprofessional and immature and I would tell them to remove it.

Thanks

You have single handedly stopped all trans people being trans with this. Well done.

FWIW - my name is a male name. Not as in Alexandra shortened down to Alex so people can confirm, my full name is a male’s name. I would find pronouns helpful in the context of people emailing me having no idea of my existence pre emailing me. I just find this uproar about people ‘using pronouns’ (as if we don’t use pronouns everyday, regardless of the context?) sooo bizarre, why are you all so offended?!

If that's the case, then why do they think their gender identity has any bearing on the single-sex spaces they want to access?

I personally haven't met anyone irl who shares those views - they are absolutely bonkers.

How awful for that young man - and disgusting some are trying to make it legal.

As for 'genital fetishist', it's almost as if men and women are (mostly) naturally attracted to each other to procreate.

But this is the extremists side that you'll find in every section of society. Generally people are realistic when it comes to biological facts.

Anyone can be with whoever they want, and be referred to however they like if it's not hurting anyone in my opinion. Makes zero difference to me or my life. The examples you've given are obviously dangerous, but they are not comparable to adding pronouns on a profile if you choose to. Some people will be glad they have that option for other reasons as PPs have said.

Agree with this. You are belittling those that find it important to state their pronouns. There's no need for it.

The employer is the party in the position of power and they are the ones trying to compel employees to display personal information, and what's more to do so inconsistently (by not also insisting that they display their marital status, sexuality etc.)
The onus is on them to behave professionally and not to discriminate. They would probably expect employees to push back if they WERE compelled to display other personal info, and they should expect the same for this.

I know because so many women are having to go to court to protect those spaces.

I know because children have been sexually assaulted by men who claim to be trans in supermarket toilets.

I know because of the number of men who come on to Mumsnet threads to tell us that they will use women's single sex spaces regardless of the fact that that they law doesn't support them.

I know because a father who posts on these threads is currently pursuing legal action against a school that allows his daughters no privacy from trans identifying boys in toilets, changing rooms and showers.

I know because I've seen men who identify as trans women in those spaces with my own eyes.

I have my pronouns in my email signature at work. My pronouns are not at odds with my sex. I consider it personally useful as I have a name that is commonly used for both males and females.

Was the driver of the normalisation of sharing pronouns trans-inclusion? Yes.

Does that mean it's the only reason to share pronouns or that sharing pronouns is intrinsically ideological? No.

I hope no one judges them for being flightsexual.

A million times this.

I think that’s what she said too?

Wow, the rusty, dusty apache helicopter 'joke'. SO edgy.

No.

Biological women will always need spaces separate from biological males, no matter how those males identify.

For every person on this thread talking about their ‘lovely trans friend’ who just want to live in peace, there are currently violent males housed in woman’s prisons, and men routinely taking medals in women’s sports. They all occupy the same space under the umbrella of trans identity being more important than biological sex.

If you accept that one man should be treated as female if he claims to be a woman, you have to then accept that all men who claim this identity should be given access to women’s spaces. The only way to keep problematic men out is to keep all men out.

It shouldn’t be seen as mean to acknowledge biological reality. This ideology is hugely problematic for women.

How do you know?

Do you know most men who identify as women?

I don't know any of these radical types. I know the trans man who teaches my daughter, and the one in the deli. I know the young trans woman at the corner shop, I know my trans daughter and her friend. I know the trans woman who works in our IT department.

None of them is a radical marcher. They are all just quietly living in a way that makes sense to them.

My "gripe" is with the dehumanizing language routinely and repeatedly used on this site about ordinary trans people. Referring to them as defined by the radical fringe. Calling them men in dresses. Thinking it's funny to openly mock in a professional environment. That kind of thing. Of course there is a radical element, like in every group.

Declaring pronouns that are clearly at odds with your sex is absolutely ideological

You can consider that as ideological.

But it doesn't follow that sharing your pronouns is ideological. I've mentioned various ways that it's useful that have no connection with gender beliefs whatsoever.

Actually it’s not remotely witty or funny either. Just looks stupid and unprofessional.