AIBU to think getting a GP appointment has basically become impossible?

Yeah? So that’s why you need to be ready to jump on just before 8am…

It's the system I don't understand. Why all this form filling? I just book an appointment, there used to be a box asking what the issue was but it seems to have disappeared now. If you need an urgent appointment then you phone, any time of the day, and one will be arranged.

It’s difficult because there aren’t enough GPs per head of population. Less than any other comparable country in Europe.

I just don't understand how/why it should be so difficult. Where I live (not UK) you go online, choose a GP, find when they have an available appointment and book it. You might have to wait a couple of weeks, especially if you want a particular GP, but at least you know you have an appointment. I always choose the same GP and when my f2f medication review is due I book an appointment a few weeks in advance. Simple as.

Well in theory so is ours, but such is the demand that they won't take any more consults once they've reached a certain number of requests. Which is generally by 8.10am.

Its alright where i am.

“Patients at nearly all GP practices (98.7%) in England can now access their surgery online, thanks to government changes allowing patients to submit online consultation requests open during work hours (8am to 6.30pm).”

It’s worded cleverly , being able to access surgeries online doesn’t mean all are open until 6.40 or that you’ll actually get a GP appointment.

I wonder this in relation to the flu going round, or any other issue you need a fit note for - surely a lot of people need more than the 1 week you can self cert off for but how on earth are you supposed to get a dr to see you to give you a fit note? It makes sense to prioritise appts for people who actually need seeing and treatment/onward referrals rather than what is essentially just an admin task but it still needs doing!

In my GP surgery emergency appts are for that morning and then everything else you need to phone on a monday for appts at some point in the next week or two - so if your 5 days self cert run out on a tuesday you wouldn't be getting an appt for at least another week, possibly up to 2 weeks later - which my work definitely wouldn't accept!

I’m driving to/ at work at that time to a school that bans phones in classrooms which I’m in all day.

Our surgery offers same day and next day appointments routinely. We have no problems getting an immediate appointment at all.

I have 3 children under 5 to get dressed and fed and out the door at this time. It’s less than ideal

You need to complain. Just like they can no longer limit online access they can’t shut off their phones or close the door between 8 and 6:30. Unless patients challenge it they will try to get away with it.

Appointments are timed to allow time to discuss one issue at a time, it keeps everything running on time otherwise you end up with one person overrunning everyone else’s appointments, I think that’s just common sense - you just explain what you need an appointment for and they’ll book you a double slot if needed.

If she booked an appointment to discuss one thing then thought she could cover off a couple that’s unfortunately her misunderstanding of how appointments work.

I don’t see why this is an issue, just be online at 7.55am, get straight on, sorted.

I never have this much trouble getting a GP appointment, I either call at 8am for usually same day or fill in the online form and they get back to me with options.

Are some areas that much better served than others?

You should be able to book online now.

This has been bought in recently by the govt, the GPs have to offer it but it seems they don't have to tell you they do 🙄

Check they haven't hidden it in the depths of the website like mine did..

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/almost-every-gp-now-offers-online-access-for-patients

Guess it depends where you live.
Online form works every time for me - I get a call back about an hour later, then either an appointment, any meds, or refer (most recently to physio).
They even phoned me up yesterday to check some short term meds are working OK.
Can't fault it, tbh 👍

Ours is available 24/7.

So you need to be poised at the phone or computer several minutes before 8am ready to fill in the online consultation in less than 3 minutes.

Annoying but you gotta do what you gotta do!

@Needmoresleep ,

That is both interesting and depressing!

As you said, it is a very short term gain with plenty of long term pain to follow.

I filled in the online triage form on Tuesday afternoon. I got a call at 8.30 the next morning inviting me to an appointment at 9.10. Blood tests were ordered and I’m going for them at 11.50 on Tuesday. It feels fine to me.

Worth noting that 50% of the approx 25,000 young doctors finishing Foundation this August did not have jobs to go to. Only 5,000 training positions (all specialities including GP) of which over half went to Doctors who studied outside the UK.

My daughter is part of this lost generation, faced with a choice between insecure zero-hours locum work or Australia. She knows more people going to a single Australian hospital than she knows people who have training places.

The root cause is Boris' decision to get rid of resident priority and open up the doctor labour market to worldwide competition. Fine if there is a genuine shortage. However new UK resident doctors are struggling to compete against experienced doctors from overseas (often motivated by expedited family settlement also offered by Boris.) It is not unusual to have 800 or more applicants per place.

Such competition allows the NHS to recruit experience at entry level wages. A short term win, but with a longer term cost. In DDs hard-to-recruit deanery they will be losing 25% of their post Foundation doctors to Australia Many would love to be able to build their careers where they are, but can't. Whilst the overseas doctors recruited for the available jobs often leave as they can for England's urban centres or become demotivated when they realise the pay does not stretch far, and they are stuck in dead end jobs with little chance of training or promotion.

The BMA is stuck in the middle. Over a third of their membership are overseas educated Doctors and there is an effective lobby, in part supported by those involved in overseas recruitment, to continue the current approach. Pay and access to training are easier things to fight for.

Each young doctor we lose cost about £400,000 to train. And unfortunately the GMC make it very difficult for doctors who acquire specialist qualifications in Australia to have those qualifications recognised here. Sadly DD, who has been offered a fantastic contract in a good hospital group in her preferred speciality in the city she wanted with scope for training after a year, expects that it will have to be a one way trip.

Ours uses the online system. Last time I used it, completed the form at about 08;15, a call back about 10 minutes later asking me to come to the surgery at 09:00.

You do hear people in the surgery telling the receptionists that they're "no good with online forms". Not all old people but working males. I think some probably cba and still want to ring. But taking calls is clearly going to take up more of the receptionists' time and stop other people being able to get through.

I imagine right now surgeries are overwhelmed with people calling about flu or Covid when, for a lot of people, the treatment is rest and paracetamol.

I have always been able to get an appointment whenever needed at my surgery. Fill out the request online (once it opens) then they usually call that day and offer an appointment later that day or the next day.

GPs are a disaster on average at the moment. It’s so self defeating as, ultimately, delayed healthcare is more expensive healthcare.

Part of it is sheer number of GPs. We have less than half the number of GPs per thousand people than the Netherlands. It is ridiculous that many graduating with a medical degree end up not being offered an NHS training placement.

Another part is the amount of red tape combined with the loss of personal allowances at £100k. Most GPs would prefer to do 3 and 4 day weeks.

And some of it is the ‘frequent fliers’. We could really do with small co payments to make people think whether they really need a GP visit. The French system works really well and, certainly in Paris, you can get an appointment within 24 hours (at most).

I am not sure the structure of GPs being contractors for the NHS (as well as offering other paid services) works well either, although it is not new.

So a lot of people who can afford it are opting out and seeing a private GP (including me). I get a 15 minute appointment for £74 (plus a £200 annual fee) and I get seen on the day. This leads to GPs leaving the health service to do more relaxed and better paid work.

1 in 8 GP appointments are now private, vs 1/35 in 2009, and fully 1/3 of licensed GPs are working outside the NHS (including private practice).

It is, in a way, an insidious privatisation.

Without some serious efforts to recruit and restructure, I can’t see it getting any better.