Why do so many people talk about moving abroad like it’s just a matter of getting up and leaving?

What % of UK Government income comes from income tax ?

About 26% ?

having lived elsewhere it does annoy me when people say moving for tax - uk tax levels are relatively middling and quite low if on average incomes compared to most places I know about in detail - however one of the big issues is ‘costs’ childcare for instance in Scandinavia costs the same ( cheap) regardless of what you earn . Same with council tax , people in other country’s ask you ‘what’s that’ - A big problem in UK is simply not enough people paying it because a lot of lower earners have worked out they are no worse off doing far fewer hours, particularly if renting and have children and needing to receive government funding relative to wages because our housing is too expensive in so many areas unless you have social housing - and that’s buying or rented.

Even on a 100k salary you are “only” paying 27k tax. Let’s not forget that the Government is spending close to 18k or even 19k according to some, on every single citizen.
The Government is overspending. That is a fact. And anyone with half a brain knows this and that is why people are opting out of the long term in the UK. They just cannot see a way out, in the long run.

@WhereIsItPlease Any government other than Labour and greens lol

So I take it you can “forgive” the 14 years of Tory chaos and the gradual erosion and stripping back of our public services?

Note that incompetence is rarely just that - and even if it was it’s bad enough in itself - but incompetence is usually just corruption disguised.

“Oh we don’t know what happened with the PPE contracts, oh I don’t know why we gave all those contracts to our chums who promised me a job with a massive salary when I leave politics..we lost track of the covid business loans…silly us..,harhar etc” 🙄

Are you not being ideological here. Any government other than Labour and the greens.

When are you leaving the UK ?

What I have noticed on my travels is that most countries do have similar levels of tax as the UK. They don't have NI of course, but you defo notice the private insurance costs.

And people move about all the time. Very often because of oppressive governments, poverty etc.

But I have never heard of people moving country just because of a mansion tax, or a 100k cutoff point for free child care.

You keep saying things like not the end of the world and it’s not millions, but it is a negative impact right? It’s not the end of the world if you break your nose, but it would be stupid to keep deliberately hitting it with a hammer.

And again nobody is claiming anything is going to collapse. It seems pointless to just keep arguing with yourself on this.

So again, what Government do you think the UK needs, to solve this non existent problem
Pretty much anyone who doesn’t have tall poppy syndrome as a core ideology. Rules out Labour and Greens. I can forgive Government incompetence but I can’t forgive deliberate malice.

What does though is funding public services.
Ah so it is ideological. It’s the two black holes!! Well this conversation has been a waste of time

Ah yes, let’s move to the US.

Quote : "Why do you only consider it negative impact if a million leave but not when 10 leave?"

Because if I had 3 million quid in the bank and lost a tenner from a hole in my pocket, it is not exactly the end of the world. You said it yourself in your post.

I never mentioned the Tories.

And no, it makes no difference in the grand scheme of things. What does though is funding public services.

No smirk on my face.

The UK did not collapse when I left. And I don't think it will collapse when your good self leaves.

So again, what Government do you think the UK needs, to solve this non existent problem ?

Again, nobody is saying everyone is leaving or it’s going to crash the UK economy just that it’s having a negative impact and Dubai was an example. Why do you only consider it negative impact if a million leave but not when 10 leave? Surely it’s just a larger negative impact? I’m not really sure how to phrase this any more simply. If you loose a pound it’s a small negative impact, if you loose a million it’s that negative impact multiplied by a million. Make sense? There no upsides to making the country unattractive to net tax payers unless it’s an ideological thing, in which case just say that as it’s a different question.

You seem to be saying this isn’t happening, if it is happening it’s not negative and it doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things. If you said it was happening because of the Tories whilst also claiming it wasn’t happening (possibly with a smirk on your face) we would have Rachel bingo.

Fair enough. If millions of the approx 3 million 100k and above earners were to leave, it would have a negative impact.

It would also have an impact on Dubai, given it has a population of 3.94 million. I say Dubai because that's the destination usually bandied about.

We could pick Australia if you prefer, population 26.77 million. 2% of Australians earn more than 200k AUD ( Equiv 100k GBP). That's about 535400 people, so I am not sure where another couple of million jobs in the same pay bracket will come from. Or the houses to put all these new immigrants of course.

You said: "I was saying that logically then even 10 leaving has a negative impact all be it very small". I think you could say infinitesimally small to be honest.

You also said : "Not all jobs are replaced, if you are hostile to net tax payers then people don’t want to live here.". My rough calculation above shows about 40k people on over 100k retire each year. How many of these people are not replaced do you think ? It can't be millions, or all?

This bit" Whole businesses are leaving and taking staff with them as the talent don’t want to live in the UK.". Can you name them ? And are these businesses leaving the UK because " the talent don’t want to live in the UK" . Leaving because of Brexit does not count of course.

I find this bit odd, because companies tend to move all the time. Often after take overs, re-organisations, off shoring etc. I have never known them to take all the staff. Usually a handful on short contracts yes, but not all. When it happened to me in the 90's, when I was sent abroad for a while as part of the relocation project, it most definitely not because people did not want to live in the UK.

This bit next : It’s not clear whether you are saying net tax payers aren’t leaving or if they are then it doesn’t matter."

It matters not one jot in the grand scheme of things.

See this link below. The Government are making it easier for them to be replaced.

UK Unveils Fast-Track Residency for High Earners After 3 Years (visaverge.com)

For sure, HNWIs are leaving. But these are not the folk on 100k a year. Many are non doms, and were not actually paying much tax anyway under the non dom rules.

UK millionaires are fleeing Britain in their thousands | CNN Business

Note the bit in that article that mentions Brexit. Quote : . “The hangover from Brexit continues to be felt, with the City of London no longer seen as the financial center of the world.”

I reckon this is just a project fear.

And I ask again, what Government would you prefer ?

You seemed to accept that millions of net tax payers leaving the U.K. would have a negative impact on the economy, so I was saying that logically then even 10 leaving has a negative impact all be it very small. Make sense? I don’t think anyone is saying the economy won’t survive, it’s just another negative trend that slowly erodes quality of life in the U.K.

Not all jobs are replaced, if you are hostile to net tax payers then people don’t want to live here. Some of those people are decision makers about where to base entire departments and offices. Whole businesses are leaving and taking staff with them as the talent don’t want to live in the UK. The supporting economy suffers as well as tax receipts.

It’s not clear whether you are saying net tax payers aren’t leaving or if they are then it doesn’t matter.

There’s really no upsides to pushing net earners and wealth creators to leave the country, it seems an odd hill to die on to be honest.

Tall poppy syndrome

Quote : "..... but if you accept that millions will have a negative impact then it follows that a thousand will or even 10. "

That makes no logical sense at all. And in any case, I did not say millions leaving would have an impact. But I agree it could be construed that way.

A quick web search, about 4% of the UK is on 100k or above. Roughly 3 million.

Expanding a bit, about a million people retire in the UK each year. Apply the 4 % to that, and we get 40k people on 100k or above, per year ,lost to the income tax paying workforce. The majority will be replaced of course, people on 70k a year being promoted. The escalator of earnings. The economy survives.

So how on earth do you get " it follows that a thousand will or even 10" will have an impact on the UK economy? An economy that is worth about $4 trillion a year ? About 840 billion GBP of that being from income tax.

My maths is likely out, but it gets the gist of what I am saying across I think.

Your guess about me could not be more wrong.

Tall poppy syndrome is a social phenomenon where people criticize, resent, or try to cut down those who stand out or succeed, instead of celebrating their achievements.

I don't follow the logic of a decreasing pool of net tax payers. We are not talking about millions of people here. And in any case, the vast majority of the jobs will still exist. The people who leave will likely be replaced

It just means less people actually paying into the system rather than taking. No we’re not talking about millions, but if you accept that millions will have a negative impact then it follows that a thousand will or even 10. I’m going to guess you work in the public sector, in the private sector often jobs are not replaced. There’s a reason why most countries try to attract high earners rather than drive them out.

So you are not leaving the UK ?

The company is moving your job to the US, but not you with it ?

This sounds like the usual company stuff that has been going on for always. Close one facility, expand another.

And if you move to Dubai, it won't make any difference to the tax revenue anyway, because your job has already went to the US, for corporate reasons. So you would not be taking the job with you.

Am I understanding this right ?

We in these jobs work at all hours of the day and night (sometimes)
i do go on social media sometimes to decompress.
if i was working till midnight I bloody well feel it’s ok to decompress for a bit during the day sometimes

Actually no, the jobs may not be replaced.
for example I’m leaving my highly paid job in my current multinational company and they are not backfilling it here, they are backfilling it in the US instead (as it’s global in nature). If I moved to Dubai they would do the same.
And it does happen very often.

Labour has not raised taxes on people earning 130k. It was all the same with Tories (I think it was them who cane up with 100K cliff too, and definitely them who came up with cutoff threshold for childcare free hours).
I say it as a high earner
stop pinning it on Labour, it’s a lie

I have no idea what tall poppy syndrome is. So what government might entice them back ?

I don't follow the logic of a decreasing pool of net tax payers. We are not talking about millions of people here. And in any case, the vast majority of the jobs will still exist. The people who leave will likely be replaced. And it's not as if there is a shortage of people.

Absolutely! Most people need to have the ability to earn, not to mention the ability to move, or the ability to be let in to the place they go!

Click bait bullshit by the media

We both earn over £100k, it’s not a high salary in London. It was a decent salary maybe 10 years ago.

@RedTagAlan

What Government do you think will entice these folk back ?
Good question, I think one without tall poppy syndrome might start to help. I suspect the ship might have sailed though.

And, do you think people on 100k a year moving to Dubai is damaging to the UK ?
Of course, especially young entrepreneurs. The ever decreasing pool of net taxpayers is damaging.

I guess I'd have thought that people on that kind of salary might not have as much down time during the day.
I'm not in London but the people I know on that kind of salary are mainly men, and some women with high pressure busy jobs (doctors, etc). I don't think they spend any time posting on Mumsnet.

I suppose what I don't know is just how London-centric Mumsnet is - if it does have half or more of the posters, then the salary thing is more believable.

What Government do you think will entice these folk back ?

And, do you think people on 100k a year moving to Dubai is damaging to the UK ?

Dubai was just an example. Obviously everyone’s tipping point is different, but 3 years abroad and coming back with a nice nest egg when a new Government is coming in obviously is appealing for a lot of people right now. Will they all cone back though?

I dunno, we don’t feel forced to move to Dubai and earn a fair bit more than that. The obvious disadvantage of moving to Dubai is then you have to live in Dubai and it’s all air con and desert and no popping round to see your mum - sign us up for paying the UK taxes please, we like it here, with public services!