Why do so many people talk about moving abroad like it’s just a matter of getting up and leaving?

I didn't vote for Brexit and I hate it too! My partner had an Irish born Grandad who was raised in Scotland but when it comes to actual details of where he was born, my partner doesn't know anything, he doesn't even know what part of Ireland he was from - Ancestry DNA has helped a little. I'm very proud of my Irish DNA from Poppy, my great grandfather, there's quite a lot of history behind his family, especially one of his brothers in terms of the IRA and the Clonmult Massacre in the 1920's, Ancestry was a revelation for me.

They’re publically accessible documents you can order. I mean, you’d expect to have to put in a bit of work to get a passport which you’re entitled to only because Ireland, with a history of economic migration, takes its diaspora seriously and recognises it wasn’t exactly a free choice for those leaving, to put it mildly, and that emigration doesn’t necessarily not involve an ongoing connection with Ireland from elsewhere .

I’ve had Brexiteers who expect me to admire their cleverness at exploiting their Irish grandparent and who complain in the next breath about how long the application process takes.

Like Ireland should set up a new government department with special responsibility for people who’ve never set foot in Ireland but want to be fast-tracked through their passport via descent application so they can go on holiday somewhere else more easily.

I’m in a similar position. and so I now know that a birth cert is public property and as long as you pay, you can have a copy sent to you. It’s a while since I did it but I’m almost sure that was the case, because I remember being quite surprised when my relative’s birth cert showed up in the post without their
explicit permission or knowledge.

I think quite a few Brexiteers went down the Irish route which is a bit cheeky really but the Irish passport is incredibly handy as you have no queues in mainland Europe and the CTA between Ireland and the UK also makes travelling between those two countries very straightforward.

Unfortunately for many of us it's an Irish Great grandparent which doesn't count and even if you've got an Irish grandparent, you need documents to prove all of that which can be tricky - how many people have got their grandparents birth certificates!

But actually, there are a lot of people, like me and DH, who could move overseas without much problem. We have worked, built two SMEs, employ a handful of very skilled people, paid into our SIPPs, and now, like a miracle after 35 years of daily grind, we are "worth" £2 million. And we are already 70. We don't need financial support, we can pay our way. But why would we stay here to be raped by tax? to fund the feckless. As it happens we can't escape because DH takes a drug that means we can't live anywhere sunny.

Thank you @mumofoneAloneandwell . It was fine really. I had a look out of curiosity after a lovely trip to Australia. Not very serious, more curious.

I think it’s more than a tiny minority. A fair amount of Brits have an Irish granny somewhere which offers and Irish passport which then opens up the whole of Europe.
But equally, I think for the wealthy a move can be quick, not just the super rich.

In Oct, my husband was offered a transfer to the Singapore office; if he had been keen, he could have been installed there in the space of a few weeks - with all visas organised by the firm. In reality I am not ready to leave the UK but with a school gap coming up in 18 months, I could certainly be persuaded.

I moved between (European) countries at least 7-8 times in my 20s and it really was as easy as decide to go, book flight and hostel for a week, pack bag, go, start looking for rooms to rent immediately upon arrival. This was of course pre-Brexit as well as pre- having a family. Not something I’d even consider now.

I think you missed her point - it was about those telling others to ‘bugger off elsewhere if they don’t like it’ that often wouldn’t be able to if I interpreted correctly - I said much the same

“I think you are basically advocating for trickle down economics?”

@RedTagAlan - no that is yet another Tory “dirty” word like austerity. I am advocating for efficiency. Which means productivity across all assets classes and all persons (private and public sector). It means bringing out the best in every person and every person fulfilling their work potential for as long as possible. It means far less red tape and system inefficiencies. We have huge inefficiencies in this country. It includes high earners working less and lowest earners not being paid enough or choosing not to work either. It includes inefficiencies in health, infrastructure, housing etc. and across generations. It includes short term politics above all else.

There is a bit of a problem in Western democracies now where nobody in charge wants to or can make big choices, nobody wants to be a bad guy, a lot of stuff is short termist. A lot of things that are controlled by Central Government absolutely should not be - the control they have is what is making things so short termist and inefficient. What if the autocratic model has become more efficient in this century. How can we have a model that is as efficient to stay competitive without compromising our democratic freedoms. That is the big question I have.

We thought we'd leave the UK in retirement, and probably go to Portugal for the weather on a D7 retirement/non-lucrative visa to pay tax at c10% rather than anything over £12,500 at 20% and some at 40%, without inheritance tax on our DC. I appreciate that this makes us quite prosperous retirees, but it's all based on DC pension contributions made for the last 40 years, so earned. For health reasons, this won't/can't happen. Not because we can't afford the insurance, but because of a drug that makes DH acutely sensitive in a high UV environment. A sunny day in winter can give him sunburn; it doesn't need to be warm.

im Extremely happy my mother is Irish so I have an Irish passport. So my children can also get one it’s crazy to me that some thought Brexit was a good idea. Why would you not want the option to work and travel at ease.

@Shedmistress - if you don’t still have a business and won’t be paying lots of tax anymore and would be increasingly using the NHS, you aren’t going to be a big economic loss though. You will be self sustaining abroad and spending there so they are probably more than happy to have you. Do enjoy.

Tbh things are as hard or as easy you make them

Maybe you don’t choose just one country to emigrate to. I know a few people who bounce between a few countries . They stay for 3 months in country A then move to country B for a few months more then either back to country A or on to country C for the amount of time they can stay there

Some are retired and some have online businesses

Know more who spend spring and summer here then live in Southern Europe when the weather gets cold

Are we? We took our large final salary pension drawdowns, our savings, and once our UK house sells, we will sell our France house and buy a bigger one out here so not sure who you are laughing at really. Maybe at yourself?

I think you are basically advocating for trickle down economics?

Scandinavian countries usually top the tables for best country to live in, and they have high tax, robust welfare etc. I won't post links because you likely know this.

So what model should the UK try to emulate ?

It doesn't make me laugh: they are the ones the country could better afford to lose. Sadly.

I think this is what some of us worry about though: it's the people who meet criteria who are able to leave. It means a lot of skilled people up sticks.

I think people are feeling depressed on a lot of fronts and it's human nature to think ok what can we do beyond moping about it.

YANBU. It always makes me laugh that those who talk about moving overseas the loudest, are the ones who likely wouldn’t have a hope of qualifying to get into another country.

I'm sure they know it takes a lot more planning than a trip to the supermarket.

Anyone who is serious about emigrating, will do their research.

“Is it not a case of the money expended by the state per capita nurtures that ambition ? And more importantly, ability?”
@RedTagAlan - well that is the million dollar question.
If the money spent actually traps people in low ambition rather than spending on top notch education, efficient health spending, infrastructure, modern housing and is combined with the huge tax burden we now have, that is why people do not believe the story anymore.
This whole “austerity” thing is a misnomer. Of course you need investment and spending, but it has to be efficient with a long term return. And it certainly cannot be disincentivising creativity, ambition, productivity and expanding red tape.

I am not leaving the UK. I moved to a different job. But the job I previously had, instead of going to someone else in the UK, is now going to someone else in the US. So taxpayer pool is decreased.

they are moving this job only because I am leaving; they were not going to move me or make me redundant.

If I moved to Dubai, the job would be gone the same way. It won’t necessarily just be filled by a different UK person

Brain drain works both ways though, and the gradient is definitely towards the advanced economies.

And I think, referring to your previous post where you said, quote : "Let’s not forget that the Government is spending close to 18k or even 19k according to some, on every single citizen.". That can be combined with this "And a lot of youngsters with ambition do chase “more"". Is it not a case of the money expended by the state per capita nurtures that ambition ? And more importantly, ability?

Yes towards middle to lower end they are reasonable in comparison to some other countries in fact 53% of people effectively pay no tax U.K., but towards the top end it is utterly terrible especially with fiscal drag. Then you’ve got things like the U.K. taxing children’s education which is unheard of pretty much anywhere else, it’s actually tax deductible in the US, Germany, Italy etc. UK is good for low earners or non earners but bad for higher earners. It’s just tall poppy syndrome and it’s unsustainable long term.

@RedTagAlan - it is about outlook on the pound as well. So once you decide you may not stay here forever and you cannot see growth nor your own return on investment of cash/your own labour and you are ambitious with big plans, you may choose a different jurisdiction with a better long term outlook. If it seems like a country where mediocrity and just getting by is celebrated and the electorate is stuck and that is not for you, other jurisdictions may offer more. And a lot of youngsters with ambition do chase “more”. The 40s-50s leaving with only another 15 years of work in them is not the issue. It is the young and brain drain there. It is not ideal.