All our children are different religions, Christmas is feeling overwhelming

Christmas wasn’t even a public holiday in Scotland until 1958!!!! Too Catholic to celebrate Christmas apparently lol

I think you sound very thoughtful

My dad was from the north east of Scotland. Christmas wasn't a thing when he was a child. He didn't get time off school or work. Everything revolved around New Year. Then American Christmas ideas started to filter in from relatives and friends who had moved to Canada and the USA. They still mainly talk about Santa, not the English Father Christmas.

Anyway, back to the OP, sounds to me like it has little to do with the religious differences and more about DD1 asserting her independence from the rest of the family and any attempt to engage her on the ins and outs of UK Christmas culture will be futile and will cause the schism she probably wants.

You have to go back a fairly long way to claim Christmas isn’t about consumerism to be fair!

Come now. You have to go back a hell of a long way to claim that Christmas in the UK isn’t about the birth of Christ.

I'm agnostic, so it's all nonsense to me. All religions, including Islam, Christianity & Judaism, have very implausible, easy to mock, origin 'stories'. Their holy books clearly build on, and steal ideas from, previous orally-shared tales that try to explain why the world is like it is, and how to have a good life.

But I do understand that religion is very important to those that believe. So, if DD1 wants her beliefs to be respected at Eid, she should be similarly willing to respect her parents' beliefs at Christmas when in their house.

She's being controlling and unreasonable. And is setting a terrible example to her young children of how different faiths could and should happily coexist.

How will she react if one of her children grows up and decides to leave Islam, or is same-sex attracted, or both? DD1 changed her religion, will they have the same freedom to choose a different life? Obviously not a discussion for now, but there may be problems if she cannot be more flexible and reasonable. Teenagers will not be so bothered about keeping the collective peace.

And before the Christian church came along others celebrated the winter solstice, Yule, Saturnalia, Sol Invictus, and so on. The tradition to gather and feast and celebrate has absolutely nothing to do with CHRIST, the church chose to imply Jesus was born on Dec 25 in order to get the pagans to convert.

The problem that people seem to be unable to comprehend with this is that although Christmas functions for many as a secular holiday, for Christians it is one of the largest religious festivals of the year, second only behind Easter.

It's fairly natural that on a religious festival, people would want to celebrate in the traditional way of their faith. I don't see people going around telling members of other religions they should just not bother with their major religious festivals as they are unimportant.

If the OPs daughter can't in good conscience be there at Christmas, then she should not try and destroy their religious observance, she should just stay home and get together with them another day. After all, the day has no significance for her, unlike her parents.

I have friends of all religions and I don't know anyone who would refuse gifts and food for their children, unless for reasons of wastefulness.

Fellow muslim here with muslim parents, i think ur DD1 is making it harder than it needs to be, there is extra flexibility in islam for convert muslims so they do not alienate themselves from non muslims family members , or even upset family members etc.
Also poeple give my kids presents and vice versa its just abit of joy, they visit grottos and we go xmas markets as do alot of the muslims i know.
U sound lovely like youve put so much thought and effort into accommodating everyone, they need to do the same back. X

I would simply not do any gifts for anyone other than your two DS's families who sort of celebrate Christmas.

Then I'd just go straight down the line and buy them all exactly the same thing, like Family Zoo membership for the year and they can have at Eid, Hannukah and Christmas respectively? Somewhere they can go a lot and enjoy but that is ludicrous to repeatedly go and visit at £100 a time.

You could also do something nice like adopt an animal on behalf of all the children? Find something new every year and make it a tradition. DD1 could hardly object unless she is being really bloody minded.

Then just spoil the grandkids on their birthdays.

Can you separate the gift giving from the Christmas element given that the gift giving isn’t related to the religious aspect of Christmas? That way, it’s just an excuse to be generous to your grandchildren? I come from an inter-religiois family and we have a similar set up. My aunt and her family go to midnight mass & church, sometimes we even host Christmas even though we are muslim and we all just celebrate the day as a family whilst respecting and explaining our different beliefs to the kids when it arises. We have a mixture of Christian’s, atheists, Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims in my family. A prayer before dinner won’t be uncommon for the muslim kids as they have a specific prayer before eating and another after dinner and a different one when eating as a guest at somebody’s home. It’s likely to be very similar when translated so won’t feel strange to them and you should do this if you want to. They will likely ignore any reference to the son of god and say aameen instead of Amen. You are very thoughtful but please try not to feel overwhelmed by it. Your family sound lovely x

IKR

It may be islamophobia of course. But there does seem to be a demand for much greater intolerance of other religions, together with controlling misogyny, written throughout the Quran. Those who convert (supposedly revert?) to Islam seem keenest to prove they're the most devout.

I work with several liberal Muslims, and they struggle with balancing their successful western lives and the very specific demands of their religion. One ex-Muslim friend has had no further contact with her parents and siblings in a decade, as it would not be safe for her.

Sikhs, Hindus and Buddhists seem to find it a little easier to muddle along with everyone else.

I wish people would stop telling the OP that she’s unreasonable for saying grace at her own table, in her own home or that playing hymns/christian carols is ‘extraordinary’.

If you chose to visit someone’s home you should be prepared to be respectful of their culture. Your DD is imposing herself on a celebration that she is completely intolerant of, this is the problem.

This thread is a reminder that the world would be a better place if we were all more understanding and tolerable of other peoples beliefs.

Do you often discuss the religious background to Christmas with your family? Or your grandkids?
Just provide dinner and gift as permitted. It will be fine.

So many posts lately about ‘Muslim relatives’ being intolerant or too extreme. Must be the season.

Can you do presents another day? Or give them in advance? Then there is less of an issue?

@Ellipsie

I do believe you have to go along with DD1's parenting decisions, if she says no gifts then no gifts. Don't try to find 'workarounds' to allow you to sidestep her parenting. You do your usual celebration traditions and give gifts to the other DGC. And I don't believe in hiding those traditions from DD1's DC by gift opening earlier with your other DGC. What were you going to do, say "Now, don't tell your cousins that you got presents"? Because that's not going to work. It's 'keeping secrets' and not fair to put on them.

And if DD1 says for you not to give or open gifts in front of her DC, that's as unreasonable of her as it would be for you to insist on giving gifts to her children. For questions or upset from DD1's DC you can say "We buy you your gifts on Eid, that's your family's 'special gift day'". If that doesn't satisfy them, then say "I think you need to ask your questions to Mummy and Daddy". Don't get into it any more than that.

Mixing traditions/religions is never easy. It's best to just do your 'usual', respecting parental wishes, when in your own home. And it's up to them to prepare their children.

Also totally shocked she wouldn't go to her brothers wedding? This seems a bit unnecessary.

I think one child will be very upset if they don't get gifts and their cousins do, I think you should bring this up with you daughter and see if she could open some gifts but not with christmas wrapping etc.?

I find it bizarre that it's your Muslim DD who is causing the problems. I taught in a majority Muslim school for a couple of decades, and we didn't have a single Muslim parent ask for their child not to be part of our Christmas celebrations. The families sent us Christmas cards and gifts, and we sent them Eid cards and enjoyed the food they sent in the day after the celebrations!

I'm only a third of the way through the thread, but I keep seeing posters saying that the 4 year old's upset "is up to her parents to manage". But that's not helpful.
In the child's eyes, it's Grandma who's left her out and given all her cousins a present, but not her. It's Grandma's relationship with the four year old that is likely to be damaged.

Most families have that one member who everyone else has to tiptoe around. It's exhausting. And the selfish & controlling one continues to behave badly as it gets them what they want which is other people's unwilling compliance and attention.

As I get older I become much more 'life is too short' and just do what I think is right, without compromising. I'd be furious and extraordinarily disappointed at my daughter not attending her brothers' church weddings. That is shockingly intolerant of her. Yet you're expected to de-christmas your traditional annual family lunch and upset two of your grandchildren by not giving them gifts?

I'd tell her to come round on Boxing Day instead. Explaining it will be much too upsetting for her children not to have gifts with all the other GCs. And Christmas Day is a day of hymns, songs and santa. Better for her and her family to come round after all of the main Christmas stuff is done.

But it's not my daughter. So I do understand completely why you are trying so very hard to keep everyone happy.

DD1 sounds terribly insecure, like she's doubling down on her wishes regardless of whether they make sense as she needs to feel like everyone respected her way of wanting things done. I'd say you should do things in terms of her kids the way she wants and let her come to any conclusions about what did/didn't work without any criticism from others. From what you've said of her, I can imagine she would be more likely to consider doing it differently next year if it's her idea and not a response to someone else saying her kids felt left out (for instance).

In terms of her children, I would have a couple of presents put aside for them just in case. If there's a big upset you take her aside and say that you do have some spare gifts getting ready for birthdays/next year, if she thinks it would help you could wrap them quickly and give them. Don't make her think it was pre-planned though.

The treasure hunt/games idea was fab.

Also, new toys to live at yours (a play kitchen?) to be used by all grankdkids but not a gift per se would givw them something fun to play with while others open gifts.

Beyond all that, if she makes it difficult she makes it difficult. There's only so much tiptoeing around tricky characters that can be done before you have to just let them do what they're going to do.

People cannot put their beliefs or lack of to one side though. My sis refused to be a Godmother to my DD. We aren’t religious and saw it as more of a special relationship role. She refused. No one seems to be able to say they will park their views. Fortunately replacements have been just as we wished and good relationships all round.