To think a lot of MNetters do not understand what it’s like to parent a child who is not quelled by your anger

"quelled by your anger"??! What a strange way of talking. Anger doesn't "quell" any child unless it is fierce enough to terrify them into passivity.

The ordinary levels of parental anger agitate children, they don't "quell" them.

I certainly agree with what I think may be the thrust behind your post - that some children are very much harder to parent than others, and ordinary parenting strategies may simply fail to work. But those may be precisely the cases in which "quelling" anger is actually extremely agitating for the child and likely to make a meltdown worse.

I don't believe in exclusively 'gentle' parenting. I don't even think that it is wrong for your child to see anger in you, up to a point. But "quelling" them with anger? Who wants a quelled child anyway??

Look at PDA techniques and read The Explosive Child OP.

Even if your child is NT there are some good tips to handing challenging children.

My extremely challenging 10 year old (3 broken TVs - kicked walls, school refusal) is the kindest and gentlest adult now (nearly 20 years old) and is living away independently at university.

Things can get better. Best advice is don't battle with them.

The bright ones learn what they can get away with in particular situations and the steps they have to go through to achieve their goals. Many develop an internal moral compass along the way. But they are not easily swayed by adults or their peers.

This is one of those circumstances where money and socio-economic background really count, I'm afraid. Children like this often do far better in private schools than in the "zero tolerance" low stimulation environments that exist in many state secondaries nowadays. Much easier to get them through the difficult teen years unscathed and achieving and keep them out of trouble.

I have a friend with a child like this too. She was very wishy washy with him by my standards (sweetie, use your gentle hands 🙄) but tbh he was unstoppable. He just didn’t care about anything that she or I or any other adult could say to him whether it was shouted or sweet talk. He looked at us like we were irrelevant. She and I used to help run a playgroup together and were neighbours and saw a lot of each other so we did tell each others kids off from time to time. As they got older we saw them less and partly it was down to his awful, uncontrollable behaviour. He didn’t care if she saw him pushing his little sister over onto gravel or not, because nothing she could do touched him. He did not care. My oldest was a drama llama but I’d take that over a child that doesn’t care any day.

In the adult world we need all sorts of people.

In most scenarios we need people able to follow the rules and do as they are told. If you work in a supermarket stacking shelves, you don’t get very far if you wander off and start maintaining the freezer. If you work in insurance compliance and start making up your own process you’ll be sacked.

But we also need people who operate by their own internal moral compass and sense of direction, who aren’t swayed by people around them. Whistleblowers, journalists, company CEO’s.

I don’t think that it’s coincidence that the two populations where adhd is really regularly reported as being over represented are prison and company ceos.

Ive got one of these kids and one thing which often works for us is “if you were the parent here what would you do?” “I’d let my child go out without shoes” “What would you do if they hurt their feet” etc.

Natural consequences also sometimes work “I’m not going to wear shoes” “ok, I’ll bring them with me incase your feet get cold and wet”.

But you can’t make them care about consequences if they don’t!

I agree that some children are harder to manage than others, but all the more reason to take a very considered, well-informed approach to parenting.

I think a lot of parents don't understand that a parent of an 'easy' child has often put considerable work in to build a strong foundation.

I also think a lot of parents don't understand what is developmentally normal or even possible for toddlers. I hear parents say "we're leaving, put your coat on and say goodbye to your friend, where are your shoes?". That's obviously not going to work.

It's worth considering that a good, experienced teacher can get almost any group of children following rules and learning something. So clearly it's possible to get even 'difficult' children to cooperate. Although yes, there are (very) rare cases where nothing works, generally with some sort of SEN involved.

Reported this serial pest

violent and a danger to themselves and others.

Are there really children who are quelled by parental anger? Mine get scared and upset when adults are angry at them.

In general I agree with the frustration from parents with naturally more compliant children...

But I would also add that I do see a lot of frustration because parents don't appreciate how long a time it takes to build up behavior in challenging children. I've experienced this as a teacher and a parent - you can't just make a change in "leadership" and then expect results. The foundation and groundwork can take years to slowly grow and develop.

So what you see is a parent or teacher who makes mistakes/doesn't have a good handle on it, but lets it slide because it "isn't that bad" and then when it does become too much, they try and change to implementing stricter methods, and it doesn't work at all. Of course it doesn't work. the culture of a family/classroom takes ages to develop, and changing it is very hard, once a way of working is in place.

If I realised that I used anger and control as my method of parenting, I'd feel like a fool and a lazy one at that. I'd be upset and disappointed in myself and learn to do better as quickly as I could.

Children like this are in the minority so YANBU, just factual.

No-one can understand what it's like to parent a child that they don't have.

You can't understand the intricacies of parenting a medically complex child if you don't have one. You can't understand parenting a child with physical disabilities if you don't have one. You can't understand parenting a child with an extremely high IQ if you don't have one. And so on. And so on.

You are not at fault for not understanding the reality of these situations if you don't live them. You can't.

My autistic DC1 doesn't 'read' authority. She can't always see a 'bigger picture' or understand the reasons for a boundary. Neither does she have the capacity to modify her tone according to circumstance. This can lead to strange exchanges where she appears defiant, oppositional and downright rude. Normal 'rules of engagement' in conflict can't be relied upon, so we muddle through, trying to find ways of communicating that make some kind of sense.

I'm relieved I had my easy-going, biddable NT DC2 second, as I'd likely have been insufferable had she been my firstborn, convinced that her compliance and cooperative nature was reflective of my superlative parenting skills.

Hint: your child is not learning the lessons you think it is.

Depending on whether you can reason with them and drum some principles and empathy into them along the way, these kids will either end up in prison or they'll rule the world.

Shy bairns get nowt unfortunately.

With DD I have to wait for the emotion to pass and she is a very reasonable little human. Before then threats don't tend to work and I'm just left enforcing a punishment after the moment has passed.

The key is to stay calm myself and not get into a power struggle - even though I'd usually 'win' the struggle we'd both lose as all she'd learn is temporary compliance, compliance isn't what I want to teach her.

There with you op 🤗

My middle child is a bit like this but she hates a cross voice and will cry. Doesn’t mean she’ll do as you ask willingly - I have had to physically hold her hands to pick up her toys. She’s been a lot more challenging to parent as I have to be a lot more creative and read her mood. Going to school has been a game changer for her though. Not sure what the difference is or if she’s just that bit older and more mature but she’s much more compliant. I truly believe that she may have ASD or ADHD and she’s working hard to mask her impulsiveness and stubborn streak at school.

Such a different kettle of fish to my eldest who is far more complaint and generally does as she’s told first time you ask. She was a very easygoing and compliant toddler too. DS isn’t even 2 yet but he is more of a wildfire child like DD2.

I think a lot of people think you can force all children to ‘behave’ but in reality you can’t. Some will resist like it’s their reason for living, even when it results in negative consequences. There are techniques that can help, but trying to force them will never work.

https://www.pdasociety.org.uk/what-is-pda/