To think a lot of MNetters do not understand what it’s like to parent a child who is not quelled by your anger

Long journey based on PDA parenting techniques found on the PDA Society website and building the quality of relationship. With a side order of speech and language therapy and occupational therapy to reduce anxiety, plus just maturing

The early stages involved a lot of not going anywhere or doing anything because I couldnt bribe or consequence him into it. It wasnt fun or easy or quick. It was miserable.

He is now he is very compliant for want of a better word. And lots of my friends find there older teens dont care about the consequences anymore, but they have no other strategies developed so there's a lot of angst.

Sounds miserable but I dont think most people know or care how other people parent their children, they just care about the results.

You can’t make people care, but you can make “behaving as if you care” the more pleasant choice. Fundamentally, this is his personality.

It is more difficult of course on the way home, and it isn’t actually clear from your posts whether it is can’t /won’t/ unrealistic expectations. I’m sort of guessing a mixture of the first two.

You are definitely in for the long haul, and to an extent it is a containment exercise. The kids I knew as Explosive Children are all now coming into adulthood, the boys certainly are universally Explosive and Angry men. (Even the ones that manage to hide it a bit.)

So what did you do instead?

We had a behaviour expert observe us in our home for about a week. They came in each day. It was a cahms/LA person.

Towards the end of the week she wrote in her report that 'he cares about no consequences that would generally be used in peace time'

We moved away from consequences based parenting at that point.

Interestingly my youngest DD cannot STAND it when we try to empathise with her, validate her feelings etc. It makes her so so angry. We have to leave her to calm down herself (luckily she is able
to do this in a safe way). Even afterwards, she will not engage in any empathising/validating.

I think you have to be brutal with natural consequences, whilst minimizing the opportunities for “defying” you (escalation).

Pick a day when you are going somewhere he wants to go and turn back if he gets out of the car seat. We cannot go there because you are putting yourself and everyone in the car at risk by taking off your belt. Also, I am the responsible driver and will be the one dealing with the police.

You don’t want to eat that, let me take your plate away, see ya at breakfast.
You don’t want to stop on the X-box: come home from school and find it gone.
You won’t pick your clothes off the floor, don’t expect a lift.
Act the little twat on the way to school - get up an hour early to walk there, and watch me not give a shit.
You know those sports coaches chats about being decent to your family… what do you think prompts them?

Then talk talk talk whilst they are calm and listening.

There is however one absolute rule with children who won’t be told. You must delay them driving as long as possible because these forces within them get unleashed when they are behind the wheel of a car. Don’t pay for lessons, don’t pay for insurance… and tell them why.

You just have not found the right thing yet... everyone has a weakness.

Haha... this sounds like an FBI interrogation from the 80s but it's true!

Parents of only children take note😁.
It's not all down to your super parenting. Lots of it is luck.
I freely admit my two were easy apart from a very challenging phase around age four.
That was hard enough, I can't imagine dealing with a rebellious teenage, I think DH and I would have crumpled.

God yes. DD 26 was (and still is) and absolute dream child. She had respect for me and did (mostly) as she was told. She had her teen strops but always apologised afterwards. She was easy to bribe with cash/withdrawal of pocket money.

DS 12 on the other hand cannot be reasoned with. There are no consequences in the world that will make him comply when he's in the moment. None. His stubborness is terrifying. He gets that from his dad. Unfortunately he's also got my temper (fast and furious) and the two things together are pretty nuclear.

Send help. And alcohol.

Yeah my kids are AuDHD and PDA and if i shout at them or get stern with them, 9/10 times its like throwing petrol on a fire.

The wrong type of praise has very clearly been shown to destroy intrinsic motivation. Saying "good job" all the time is counterproductive. This is well established in child development literature.

The car seat scenario is interesting. DD1 was like Houdini and could get out of her seat with a 5 point harness by undoing it when she was two. As soon as we strapped her in, she would undo it again, so we had to keep stopping and putting her back in it. She couldn’t speak, so we couldn’t reason with her. Our doctor suggested that maybe she didn’t like feeling constrained and confined, and that we try a booster seat, used with an ordinary seatbelt. It was instant success. She could reach across for her books and toys and was so much happier. We also had to put her in a bed at 18 months as she climbed out of her cot.

Completely agree OP. I have two children who naturally want to please me so if I tell the off they shape up. I have one who just reacts with anger at any attempt to discipline. On the flip side of that as he isn't externally motivated he is very internally motivated and works hard at school and his hobbies.

Personally I found that getting eye contact was essential. It helped with my 2 DC and also with the younger children I teach English as a foreign language to as well. Kids I see once a week, getting down to their level as well.

Yep. I had one who, sent to his room to 'calm down' would climb out of the window. Grounding was pointless, he'd just walk out. Would argue black was white and didn't care when I was on my knees with tiredness and frustration. Did what he wanted (although, in his favour, he was never criminal) and genuinely did not give a tuppenny fuck what I said or thought.

He's in his late thirties now, married and perfectly responsible and ordinary. Employed, has a home - I just think he didn't want to be told what to do. But it was absolute hell when he was young.

Bit concerned that you talk about “quelling with anger”

because if that’s your nature it’s what you teach your child so I am not at all surprised that you have discipline troubles

Parental anger and rage occurring once or twice in a childhood is fine - but thinking it’s how you discipline normally is wrong

Ds could be very hard to tell off seemed not to care - even school admited that in the end.

Time outs, naughty steps rewards charts were all disasters with him.

However tone did eventually work - I think that was a mix of trust building sometimes explaining why- him suffering natural consquences ie getting hurt not listening or having one I found that did work for him - and getting tone right. I've heard many parents say they use direct lanagage and firm tone and they don't - they over explain they have a whiny easily tuned out voice.

Sometimes looks would work -sometimes nothing would - sometimes there was an underlying reasons for the behavior - more support need

It's often finding out what works for that child - all three of mine are different.

Firm, consistent boundries and consequnces did eventually work - took longer and was harder work and there were many missteps.

Yeah I'd have a breakdown.

My DC would fold the moment I gave them the 'look'. They're very occasionally pushing boundaries now and the look/stern voice isn't working and I've got nothing.....

I know I've got a good kid but in those moments of defiance I realise I'm completely powerless.

Weak, permissive parenting produces weak young adults who lack resilience. I think this has been proven in this country by the sheer number of youngsters with various diagnoses, refusing to leave home, on benefits and addicted to their phones.

DD2 is now 14 - she gives not a damn about consequences & never has done.
Completely different to parent her than DD1 - I am usually still flummoxed.

😂 We might all have moments but we don't "end up" anywhere. We carry on, some things work some don't, some days are better than others, but things change and children do grow and develop and learn. For us childhood might have been a riot but adolescence was a breeze!

One wise thing that DC's teacher said, was that DC did well when his development and his environment were roughly matched. Not when they were out of step.