Page 10 | Drs' payrise should be funded by cutting 23.7% govt pension contribution

eyeses · 2025-12-15T17:54:25+00:00

The Telegraph today suggests that the Government could fund a significant payrise to Resident Doctors by reducing our surprisingly high payments into their pensions. "Yet what is often forgotten is that these doctors enjoy bumper pensions worth close to 75pc of their salaries in retirement – and which are guaranteed to rise with inflation each year. Doctors enjoy index-linked, taxpayer-funded “defined benefit” schemes, many of which pay a proportion of the recipient’s final salary from the day they retire. Under the NHS scheme, staff contribute between 5.2pc and 12.5pc of their salaries while the state contributes a vast 23.7pc each year. By comparison, private sector workers, who are almost all enrolled in “defined contribution” pensions where the value of the final pot depends on investment performance, receive a contribution of just 3pc from their employer. The NHS is paying out nearly £1bn a month in staff pensions, with almost 2,000 staff receiving pensions of more than £100,000 annually – a figure that has more than doubled in a year." AIBU - No, junior Drs deserve that we fund a big pay rise and huge pension IANBU - We pay far too much into Dr's pensions and they want the money now [[https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/jobs/what-junior-doctors-dont-want-you-know-about-their-pay-salary-striking/ What Resident Doctors don't want you to know about their pay]]

MidnightMeltdown · 15/12/2025 22:08

They wouldn’t be able to change the terms for current workers, only for new joiners, so you’d be looking at 40 - 50 years before it made any significant difference.

Original poster

eyeses · 15/12/2025 22:05

FloozingThePlot · 15/12/2025 20:35

What's your opinion on this OP? It would be good to know, otherwise this could read like a post designed to drive traffic to the Telegraph or goad posters into yet more public sector bashing.

Well, I haven't read all the replies, but I am quite surprised by all the posts saying stuff about low paid NHS or other public service employees. That's a completely different subject.
I only know what I have read, so maybe it's not true. Thanks to PPs saying the pension scheme mentioned is not for newer people (so not for junior doctors presumably?) and NHS pensions are unfunded, which I think means they are the problem of a future govt.
I had thought that choosing to opt out of the pension would only be opting out of your own contribution, not pocketing the employer's contribution, which is what we are talking about here.

I think that it is a surprisingly large employer's contribution, and not really on the radar of people around 30 years old. I think the doctors should be offered the option of swapping up to 20 of the 23.7% employers contribution for pay instead, with the option to swap it back to pension later. Yes that would mean funding it now, but they may have to anyway.

OP posts:

thenightsky · 15/12/2025 21:59

Couldyounot · 15/12/2025 20:16

As it goes, I've got one of these massive bloated gold-plated all-singing all-dancing public sector DB pensions. On current contribution rates it will currently pay me about £8k a year in retirement, if I ever live long enough to claim it. Fortunately I have other provision from my previous stints in the private sector. Some of you need to stop believing what you read in certain newspapers.

LOL. I started working in the NHS when I left school in 1977. My bloated, gold-plated pension is £700 a month.

1457bloom · 15/12/2025 21:45

Giddykiddy · 15/12/2025 21:00

One difference people tend to forget is that if you have a public sector pension and you die it is generally cut by 50% if you have a spouse and there are no further payments made if you are unmarried.

With private sector contributory pensions the pot goes to a nominated beneficiary or beneficiaries. This is currently inheritance tax free (tho Labour tax laws will change this shortly).

This key difference is rarely taken into account when the press bleat about public sector pensions.

It’s different though, with a private pension, if the market crashes your pension could halve, there is a lot of market risk. For, the public sector there is no market risk because the taxpayer pays.

1457bloom · 15/12/2025 21:42

emeraldcity2000 · 15/12/2025 20:59

Doctors are extremely underpaid relative to their skill, education and responsibility level. The working conditions are also dreadful. We shouldn’t be cutting pensions, we should be restoring pay to a level commensurate with roles of equivalent size

They are paid well, if they are not happy, they should stop whinging, grow up and get back to work, or otherwise, do something else that is better paid if they think they are so great.

Nearly50omg · 15/12/2025 21:06

kittywittyandpretty · 15/12/2025 19:10

But most of them won’t I remember having this conversation with a British doctor in Australia who was happy to give it a go for two years but there was no way it was a long-term move for them
Far too many times to the UK and enjoyed a much better standard of living in the UK places like Australia are expensive to establish yourself in if you don’t have family money and assets
I don’t know if you’ve ever seen the price of a desirable suburb in Sydney, Melbourne or Perth, but it’s not cheap

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also in Australia they will have to pay 50% of their salary to tax and they also have to pay out of their salary compulsory private health insurance because the public health system is so shit!!

TheMateofOphelia · 15/12/2025 21:05

ByQuaintAzureWasp · 15/12/2025 20:52

What do you mean, employers e g. NHS Trusts pay in the 23/25% each month to the pension fund just as each school pays it in to TPS and LGPS each month. It does indeed exist!

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No. NHS and TPS are unfunded schemes.

LGPS is funded, although the contributions paid by each council vary.

Giddykiddy · 15/12/2025 21:00

One difference people tend to forget is that if you have a public sector pension and you die it is generally cut by 50% if you have a spouse and there are no further payments made if you are unmarried.

With private sector contributory pensions the pot goes to a nominated beneficiary or beneficiaries. This is currently inheritance tax free (tho Labour tax laws will change this shortly).

This key difference is rarely taken into account when the press bleat about public sector pensions.

emeraldcity2000 · 15/12/2025 20:59

Doctors are extremely underpaid relative to their skill, education and responsibility level. The working conditions are also dreadful. We shouldn’t be cutting pensions, we should be restoring pay to a level commensurate with roles of equivalent size

ByQuaintAzureWasp · 15/12/2025 20:52

Flizzy · 15/12/2025 18:53

No Government would ever do this because it would be way way more expensive for the first few decades. That 25% doesn't actually exist, it's just the theoretical value. That 5-12% that the employee puts in is then used to pay the current pensions. If the got rid of DB that money would be put in a pot for the employee and the government/NHS would have to make it up.

What do you mean, employers e g. NHS Trusts pay in the 23/25% each month to the pension fund just as each school pays it in to TPS and LGPS each month. It does indeed exist!

Anyahyacinth · 15/12/2025 20:37

More divide and rule crap.

How about we have good conditions and pensions for staff in all sectors? The last people I want to be disgruntled are care staff and clinical staff..they have a hard enough job as it is.

The Telegraph is big on distracting from the real greed merchants in our society

FloozingThePlot · 15/12/2025 20:35

What's your opinion on this OP? It would be good to know, otherwise this could read like a post designed to drive traffic to the Telegraph or goad posters into yet more public sector bashing.

Letsbe · 15/12/2025 20:34

My two children both doctors would just like a training post and maybe a 37 hour working week.

TheMateofOphelia · 15/12/2025 20:31

NHS pensions are unfunded so reducing the scheme to current workers wouldn't save any money.

Alexandra2001 · 15/12/2025 20:23

taxguru · 15/12/2025 18:50

I agree with the OP. Public sector workers always like to winge about pay and comparing it to private sector, but suffer memory loss when it comes to their very generous pensions which private sector workers can only dream of. Time the TOTAL packages were compared not just cherry picking.

Pensions don't pay day to day bills... and no one knows their future health or longevity.

I wonder how many expressing opinions like yours would be saying the same after a Doctor and team saves their childs life or their own?

I listened Streeting, he should defect to the Tory party, would fit right in, as would Starmer

OddBoots · 15/12/2025 20:20

With this £2k cap on salary sacrifice coming in I can see more private sector employers offering a bigger pension and a smaller salary more like the public sector in a few years - it would be one way to save paying some NI. The tide may turn.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 15/12/2025 20:18

Oh, that'll solve it and they'll all come running back to work for the NHS, won't it?

Couldyounot · 15/12/2025 20:16

As it goes, I've got one of these massive bloated gold-plated all-singing all-dancing public sector DB pensions. On current contribution rates it will currently pay me about £8k a year in retirement, if I ever live long enough to claim it. Fortunately I have other provision from my previous stints in the private sector. Some of you need to stop believing what you read in certain newspapers.

Motnight · 15/12/2025 20:08

1457bloom · 15/12/2025 19:30

If you are not happy, get another job, or are you just sticking around for your massive tax payer funded pension…

@1457bloom are you not going to be getting a state pension?

Willowybilge · 15/12/2025 20:06

1457bloom · 15/12/2025 19:00

All state employees should have the same pensions as the rest of us.

Then they should have the same wages too.

Sid9nie · 15/12/2025 20:05

The DB scheme has been shut to new entrants for years. Current doctors are on a defined contribution average salary scheme.

PinkFrogss · 15/12/2025 19:58

taxguru · 15/12/2025 19:41

But the very low earners do very well out of pensions. They get 2/3 final salary PLUS full state pension, which is often a lot more than they were earning when they were working, particularly the likes of "assistants" in the NHS and schools etc especially if working part time. Ie if they were on £12k when they retired, they could be on £9k occupational pension AND £12k state pension! I know rules have changed so later joiners won't get the same, but I've had loads of clients over the years whose combined public sector and state pensions have exceeded their wages when working. Then people wonder why we have a massive deficit and we pay more on interest than education! It's simply not sustainable.

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To get 2/3 your final salary as pension in local government, unless on a final salary scheme which was phased out quite some time ago, would require many years of service.

If someone has worked in a low paid, probably vital to the community, role for most of their life then I’d say they deserve a decent pension.

JemimaTiggywinkles · 15/12/2025 19:57

1457bloom · 15/12/2025 19:30

If you are not happy, get another job, or are you just sticking around for your massive tax payer funded pension…

Loads of public sector workers are quitting (eg doctors moving abroad / private practise) or simply not signing up in the first place (teaching). If an employer cannot attract or retain staff then they should perhaps question if the overall package is attractive.

EyeLevelStick · 15/12/2025 19:49

taxguru · 15/12/2025 19:41

But the very low earners do very well out of pensions. They get 2/3 final salary PLUS full state pension, which is often a lot more than they were earning when they were working, particularly the likes of "assistants" in the NHS and schools etc especially if working part time. Ie if they were on £12k when they retired, they could be on £9k occupational pension AND £12k state pension! I know rules have changed so later joiners won't get the same, but I've had loads of clients over the years whose combined public sector and state pensions have exceeded their wages when working. Then people wonder why we have a massive deficit and we pay more on interest than education! It's simply not sustainable.

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Which NHS employees get 2/3 final salary?

tistheseasontoeatcheese · 15/12/2025 19:47

taxguru · 15/12/2025 19:41

But the very low earners do very well out of pensions. They get 2/3 final salary PLUS full state pension, which is often a lot more than they were earning when they were working, particularly the likes of "assistants" in the NHS and schools etc especially if working part time. Ie if they were on £12k when they retired, they could be on £9k occupational pension AND £12k state pension! I know rules have changed so later joiners won't get the same, but I've had loads of clients over the years whose combined public sector and state pensions have exceeded their wages when working. Then people wonder why we have a massive deficit and we pay more on interest than education! It's simply not sustainable.

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This is not correct. At all. The final salary pension, certainly for NHS workers, ended some time ago. I’d be over the bloody moon if I thought I was going to get 2/3 of my salary as a pension when I retire. It will be nothing near that.