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AIBU?

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To ask if you think coming into existence is a good thing for every human

157 replies

Pavementworrier · 12/12/2025 15:36

We all live through pain at some point. Hopefully also joy (although I'd say that's a fairly modern possibility for ordinary folk). When you make a child exist is it always a good thing, regardless of the balance of ups and downs? Are you grateful just to be here for this experience no matter how it goes?

(Inspired by a conversation on another thread)

OP posts:
Pavementworrier · 12/12/2025 16:09

There is a reason nobody smiles in early photography

OP posts:
Pavementworrier · 12/12/2025 16:08

SomedayIllBeSaturdayNight · 12/12/2025 16:03

But those things were completely normal. As someone said, you don't miss what you've never had.
Serfdom was hard, but it didn't remove the human capacity for joy, there is plenty of evidence of strong human cooenctiln, families living together for generations forming strong bonds, close knit communities, many annual celebrations and festivities.
All peoples, in all circumstances, have times of joy.

I think slaves can find slavery intolerably despite never having known anything else.

Did bronze age miners know joy as they scrambled around in the dark rock? I really doubt it.

OP posts:
Saz12 · 12/12/2025 16:07

It's an interesting question- but honestly, I think human beings are a range from those who are broadly able to be happy despite their hardships, or generally miserable regardless of their luck.

Vroomfondleswaistcoat · 12/12/2025 16:05

So much unhappiness is caused by comparison. If EVERYONE uses a chamberpot, has no heating bar an open fire, can only eat fish on Fridays, has no money and lives in one room, then they will find their joy from other things. They wouldn't be sitting around green with jealousy because them at Number Nine have an indoor toilet (these were regarded with deep suspicion at first and thought of as being dirty - evacuating your bowels in the house?!) because they didn't know anyone with an indoor toilet.

Joy is found in the small things. I don't have much ready cash but I still love walking out into the middle of a field and looking up at the sky.

InterestedDad37 · 12/12/2025 16:04

As for why people had kids in bad times/situations in the past, well, people generally like to have sex, and I guess a bit of sheep's intestine wasn't always a reliable method of contraception 👍

Everlore · 12/12/2025 16:04

ComfortFoodCafe · 12/12/2025 15:39

No. Those born very poorly and have no real life other than lying in a bed, blind & deaf etc I think its cruel.

I was born with no eyes and with multiple joint deformities. Have had a pretty amazing life though. Lovely childhood with adoring parents, did very well academically at school and got a first class degree from a top university and now do a rewarding job, own my own home, have a good social life etc. Most importantly, I'm very happily married with a perfect baby.
My life is sweet, just because you lack the imagination to fathom that life with severe disabilities might be worth living, even rich and fulfilling, doesn't make it true.

SomedayIllBeSaturdayNight · 12/12/2025 16:03

Pavementworrier · 12/12/2025 15:59

Yes this sort of thing is what I mean. Only allowed to eat festive things on certain days thanks to sumptuary laws. You BELONGED to your feudal lord FFS. No privacy. Other people's shit jokes as the Lord of Fools your only entertainment.

It makes the Mrs brown's boys Christmas special sound ok in comparison.

(I have never watched the Mrs brown's boys Christmas special)

Edited

But those things were completely normal. As someone said, you don't miss what you've never had.
Serfdom was hard, but it didn't remove the human capacity for joy, there is plenty of evidence of strong human cooenctiln, families living together for generations forming strong bonds, close knit communities, many annual celebrations and festivities.
All peoples, in all circumstances, have times of joy.

InterestedDad37 · 12/12/2025 16:03

We all strive and hope for happiness, peace of mind, love and all the rest of it, and we hope to come through (the almost inevitable) bad times relatively unscathed, but some people just live shitty, horrible lives, so no, coming into existence isn't a good thing for everyone.

Pavementworrier · 12/12/2025 16:01

bestcatlife · 12/12/2025 16:00

I guess the big difference between then and now is there is no sense of community now and people are expected to fend for themselves.. when I was growing up it was expected that I get a job straight from school and move out (working class background)
I admire cultures where the family live together through their lives, if not in the same house then usually next door or very close by.

I think they're deeply oppressive. But then I guess the deep oppression is also why people kept having kids. That and the no pension provision.

OP posts:
bestcatlife · 12/12/2025 16:01

I don't want to have to have sex with a husband in order to keep a roof over my head, - believe me women are still doing this now. More then ever in fact, see; the housing crisis

theunbreakablecleopatrajones · 12/12/2025 16:01

ChoccieCornflake · 12/12/2025 15:45

I don't think indoor toilets and hot showers are essential for happiness.

Well they're pretty essential for mine, but if you never knew they existed..

Also I guess if you were toiling in the field all day, what else would give your life meaning other than kids

also - God

and no birth control

Pavementworrier · 12/12/2025 16:00

schoolfriend · 12/12/2025 15:59

People strive to survive (and procreate) in all kinds of difficult circumstances. You might think you’d rather not have kids (or possibly rather be dead?!) if you didn’t have ann indoor toilet but you’d be very unusual if that were the case.

I’ve been to very poor parts of the world and everyone is not miserable.

You should read Status Anxiety by Alain de Botton.

I have read it, it was blah.

I don't want to have to have sex with a husband in order to keep a roof over my head, especially when the husband has been unable to ever in his entire life have a hot shower.

And I judge anyone who thinks that's ok.

The past sucks and not because they didn't have netflix.

OP posts:
bestcatlife · 12/12/2025 16:00

I guess the big difference between then and now is there is no sense of community now and people are expected to fend for themselves.. when I was growing up it was expected that I get a job straight from school and move out (working class background)
I admire cultures where the family live together through their lives, if not in the same house then usually next door or very close by.

TheRealMagic · 12/12/2025 15:59

Take it you're not much of a camping fan?!

Of course people in the past experienced joy despite not having indoor toilets.

When it comes down to it, most - not all, but most - people have a very strong urge to live, no matter their circumstances.

Pavementworrier · 12/12/2025 15:59

SomedayIllBeSaturdayNight · 12/12/2025 15:56

Take medieval peasants for example, this is what AI says:

How they lived: Long days of farm labor, heavy taxes, uncertain harvests.
Sources of joy:

Feast days and festivals — medieval calendars had many religious holidays with games, dancing, music, and feasting.

Community gatherings — harvest celebrations, weddings, and village fairs.

Storytelling and humor — travelers, priests, and minstrels brought stories; villagers told jokes and folk tales by the fire.

Children — records and art show families playing simple games, laughing, and celebrating births.

Example: In the 1300s, the Feast of Fools allowed peasants to dress as nobles and mock authority — a day of laughter and release.

Yes this sort of thing is what I mean. Only allowed to eat festive things on certain days thanks to sumptuary laws. You BELONGED to your feudal lord FFS. No privacy. Other people's shit jokes as the Lord of Fools your only entertainment.

It makes the Mrs brown's boys Christmas special sound ok in comparison.

(I have never watched the Mrs brown's boys Christmas special)

OP posts:
schoolfriend · 12/12/2025 15:59

People strive to survive (and procreate) in all kinds of difficult circumstances. You might think you’d rather not have kids (or possibly rather be dead?!) if you didn’t have ann indoor toilet but you’d be very unusual if that were the case.

I’ve been to very poor parts of the world and everyone is not miserable.

You should read Status Anxiety by Alain de Botton.

Catza · 12/12/2025 15:58

Pavementworrier · 12/12/2025 15:53

I think you underestimate how unpleasant it is to live with constant stress, fear, sickness, normalised infant mortality, hunger, cold, smelly. I mean yea they didn't know anything else but it would still have absolutely sucked.

As Haruki Murakami said: "Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional". Some people feel joy despite the worst circumstances, others find ways to suffer having everything they could possibly desire.

sittingonabeach · 12/12/2025 15:57

Lack of contraception would explain why people have children in less than ideal situations, also the hope that children will look after them when they are sick, old.

JudgeBread · 12/12/2025 15:57

Super weird to think that poor and struggling people can't feel joy. What a bad take lmao.

SomedayIllBeSaturdayNight · 12/12/2025 15:56

Take medieval peasants for example, this is what AI says:

How they lived: Long days of farm labor, heavy taxes, uncertain harvests.
Sources of joy:

Feast days and festivals — medieval calendars had many religious holidays with games, dancing, music, and feasting.

Community gatherings — harvest celebrations, weddings, and village fairs.

Storytelling and humor — travelers, priests, and minstrels brought stories; villagers told jokes and folk tales by the fire.

Children — records and art show families playing simple games, laughing, and celebrating births.

Example: In the 1300s, the Feast of Fools allowed peasants to dress as nobles and mock authority — a day of laughter and release.

Pavementworrier · 12/12/2025 15:55

MaxandMeg · 12/12/2025 15:53

What a very odd idea. You've just dismissed about half the population of the world along with billions of ancestors. You'd have wiped out a lot of geniuses because those are both recent in the long story of the human race.
I can assure you that, although the mountain village I lived in had no plumbing and no running (let alone hot) water, the children were cared-for, loved and thriving. It's also often called the happiest country in the world.

I'm not wiping anyone out I'm saying I don't fancy it. Is it more pleasant for a genius to exist?

OP posts:
SomedayIllBeSaturdayNight · 12/12/2025 15:54

Family, relationships, celebrations, music, festivities, nature, religious beliefs, simple pleasures, all these things have always brought joy to people everywhere. Yes, perhaps intertwined with hardship, but joy nevertheless

MaxandMeg · 12/12/2025 15:53

What a very odd idea. You've just dismissed about half the population of the world along with billions of ancestors. You'd have wiped out a lot of geniuses because those are both recent in the long story of the human race.
I can assure you that, although the mountain village I lived in had no plumbing and no running (let alone hot) water, the children were cared-for, loved and thriving. It's also often called the happiest country in the world.

Pavementworrier · 12/12/2025 15:53

Lilyhatesjaz · 12/12/2025 15:51

I don't think you miss what you've never had, and people in the past were less bothered by hygiene.
There is a lot of joy in good company, beautiful views, flowers. The love of family.

I think you underestimate how unpleasant it is to live with constant stress, fear, sickness, normalised infant mortality, hunger, cold, smelly. I mean yea they didn't know anything else but it would still have absolutely sucked.

OP posts:
SomedayIllBeSaturdayNight · 12/12/2025 15:51

Of course your ancestors felt joy! Yes, they may have had less, and life was harder in many ways, but so much easier in others!
Financial wealth and positive mood do not go hand in hand!

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