To wonder if the Doctors strike will still go ahead next week?

Exam fees: Trainees in professions with paid exam expenses don't on average earn anywhere near as much. This is certainly true of accountancy and law, if you know of exceptions I would be interested to hear about them.

Student loans: Everyone else pays them. It is not as though anyone choosing to do a medical degree does so in the expectation that they won't have to.

"Trainee bottle neck": Let's face it, with only two thousand GP/consultant retirals per annum and ten thousand medical graduates (rising to fifteen in a few years) they should have seen that one coming too. Even so, the BMA misrepresents the shorter term situation for F2s, most of whom do not immediately apply for training posts but nonetheless are in training posts three years later.

"Overflowing" A/E departments: This is unrelated to trainee numbers, it is due to a shortage of beds and operating theatres.

Professionalism: The BMA had plenty of opportunities to get militant about loss of professionalism over the years but did not. Revalidation, Programmed Activities, mandatory training, cancellation of the SR grade, centralised OP bookings, and no doubt other things that don't immediately come to mind, all contributed to a loss of autonomy, efficiency, and standing of hospital consultants. Juniors put up with much worse in the past than they have to now but they could see that it would be worth it if they persisted. But they were also on the whole better educated, harder working, and less entitled, which probably helped; they certainly did not refer to themselves as "expert clinicians".

Of course pay matters — but what you’re describing is about basic dignity, retention, and sanity.

A junior doctor filling in notes on the floor because there isn’t a desk isn’t a “first world problem”, it’s a systems failure. Lockers, desks, safe storage, somewhere to sit — these are minimum standards in almost any professional workplace, yet somehow the NHS treats them like luxury add-ons.

The exam fees issue is another huge one that barely gets airtime. Most professions:
pay for exams
reimburse on passing
treat training as investment

In medicine, doctors are expected to personally fund mandatory exams that run into thousands — while already carrying eye-watering student loan debt and working antisocial hours. It’s not about prestige exams; it’s about being allowed to progress at all.

And the student loan interest point is spot on. We’ve created a perverse situation where:
doctors who stay in the NHS pay huge interest for decades
those who leave for Australia, NZ, or Canada often repay little or nothing. So loyalty is effectively punished. That’s not a recruitment problem — it’s a policy choice.

The training bottleneck is perhaps the most maddening part. The idea that we can have:
overflowing A&E departments
rota gaps everywhere
exhausted staff
and doctors reapplying for training posts with no guarantee of progression
…is genuinely absurd. You don’t tell pilots mid-flight they might not be allowed to finish training next year.

What your son is asking for isn’t unreasonable or greedy. It’s:
a functioning workplace
funded training
fair treatment for staying
and a system that doesn’t actively drive people away

If the NHS wants doctors to stay, it has to stop behaving like their commitment is infinite and cost-free.

This isn’t about strikes being “selfish.” It’s about whether we want a healthcare system staffed by people who are treated like professionals — or one that runs on guilt, burnout, and goodwill until it collapses.

And judging by the current state of A&E, we already know where the latter leads.

I’m at a point where I think anyone who gets a job outside the UK should go for it, take everything with them, and fully embrace the freedom.

interview letters only went out today for the first sitting of applications so hardly surprising people do not know.

If you go overseas you may not have a job to come back to and alot of jobs become available after the selection processes. The ignorance of applying for jobs on this forum is unbelievable

It is criminal that the points based system is favouring International Medical Graduates.

Did you see the fairytale post from HostaCosta?

I don’t disagree that the unions that represent other public sector workers should address the issue for their members, but sorry, Drs just come over as if they and they alone have this right to pay restoration and due to the way the NHS is setup with regards to pay, it’s irrelevant if for example, nurses reject a pay award then everyone else accepts it as it’s then just imposed, believe it or not, Drs do not run the NHS alone

Okay. That’s not the feeling in my trust.

They are often older than our graduates, so have be more experience and qualifications (from their home country). It’s a points based application, my dc had 15 points last year having completed her foundation training , 16 was needed for an interview. So she has gone to Australia to work for a year, sat her uk based MSRA exam whilst there and gained an extra point. But this year you need 17 points for an interview , so she has no job to come back to. Who knows what she will do now. She doesn’t know anyone in her social circle ( most went to Oz too ) who has an interview for a training position for next year. This has been happening since 2019, but getting worse each year .

I'm not anti resident doctors, I'm anti this strike action at this time.

His support will be appreciated. There is an anti resident doctor vibe on here at the moment.

Dh is a consultant and still supporting them.

It is shocking. What is the point of PAs? Cannot prescribe or order radiology and "should" discuss patients with doctors who then take the responsibility.

Our consultants had been supportive of resident doctors previously, they are seemingly not rid time. A divide is coming and the 2008 nonsense which suggests everyone in the uk needs a pay rise is unrealistic.

As I mentioned previously the government are wasting billions of pounds deliberately replacing doctors /GP:s with a lesser skilled workforce and all paid much more than a doctor.This is also why there are a lack of training places .
Failed replacement 1. 10,000 plus Physician assistants who were placed in hospitals /GP practices as direct replacements fully funded by the government .Please note they were originally called Physician Associates and patients thought they were seeing a Doctor /GP
After a lot of concerns raised and patient deaths Wes streeting agreed a review -the Leng review which said that this group are not qualified Doctors/GP's and should not be diagnosing patients .This group are paid a starting hourly rate of 28.00 compared to a doctors starting hourly rate of 19.00
.Wes has still not acted on this review and this very expensive workforce remain in Doctor and GP posts ..
Wes is also actively reducing Doctors jobs and replacing the roles with advanced clinical /trainee clinical practitioners from a variety of backgrounds ranging from occupational therapy to nursing .They also get fully funded masters courses and are paid far more than doctors .This is what I'm angry about -this government doesn't want us seeing a doctors/Gp and is happy to risk patient safety .The government does have the money to improve doctors pay and expand places but prefers to fund their replacements instead .The workforce plan is aiming to have 39,000 advanced clinical practitioners!

It really isn't.

It’s a pay rise

Their unions should address that. BMA represents doctors.

And why are they the only public sector workers who deserve pay restoration. Lost any sympathy I might have had

Exactly! Doctors are so well paid compared to other, equally essential health care professionals - especially nurses. This just comes across as greedy - they want to main the differential so they stay rich & everyone else caring for patients is much poorer than them. Time to move on.

I doubt many of these doctors hospital colleagues, some of which will be covering their duties, could afford to strike for 5 days. That in itself tells you a lot about them.

"2008 pay restoration" is another egregious attempt to mislead the credulous.

This date probably wasn't randomly chosen by the BMA as a comparator. The EWTD was implemented the following year. So, in 2008 juniors worked longer hours than they do now, and by every metric deserved to be paid more.

The striking juniors have been allowed far too much latitude with their propaganda.

It is beyond annoying.

Not really 85% of ours in august 2025 had jobs to go to - the reminder were leaving medicine, going travelling, maternity leave, paternity leave.

WE checked to see if we needed to help more because fo the rhetroic.

}I thnk the difference is Purple you and the residents consider themselves to be unemployedif they are not in the training programme of their choice in the location of their choice .

The rest of the world considers a job is a job and youare not unemplyed

This really is a fairytale.

In our small snapshot of known medics. All graduates got training posts, those that didn't have been doing locum, highly lucrative. Of those who got training posts, some have already decamped to other training posts.

Those that are striking have booked holidays this week and are off to Europe for a few days.

As for being underpaid..... Their standard of living would suggest not.

I’m not sure Labour would do this. But maybe they would idk

2008 pay levels - they have chosen an index which makes it look worse and if they use the other indcies whihc most other groups use then it would be about 5%.

Applying the BMAs logic the nurses need a 45% pay increase, consultants 35% where does it stop.

each 1% costs 571 million pounds just on resident doctors

How do you know Araminta is nto a doctor?