To wonder if the Doctors strike will still go ahead next week?

My DC did two years of surgical training and passed MRCS part A and B first time - pass rate fo part A is 55% so yes, he was more likely to pass first time than failure. Part B has a pass rate of 75% so again he was more likely to pass than fail and if they passed part A first time had a greater likelihood of apssing part B first time. He did well but with those statistics so did a lot of other poeple so passing is not a given right to getting the next step for anyone.

but now marking time as an SHO when he should be working as a reg in his chosen specialty and building on his skills - no he is not marking time as an an sho, he is learning new skills and new knowledge which will hopefully make him a more holistic doctor. If he is in a trust grade surgical job then those operative skills/outpatient diagnostic skills he is learning are transferable form one speciality to another. Your inability to see how most jobs in medicine have transferable skills increase knowledge etc does make me question your assertion that you know so much about medicine and surgery that all the other posters opinions are derided and scorned by you.

A poster on here seemed to think a year of a completely different job was useful to my DC - yes it is..
The same poster that thought that doctors did not have to have their own indemnity insurance as they could rely on Crown Indemnity - they do not need ti when working in an NHS hospital. Crown indeminity does cover them for their actions in the hospital. However, do not know many doctors who do not get their own personal indemnity but I can assure you having indemnity is not an employment check on acquiring a medical job in the NHS.

and made an unpleasant comment about ND - well if you can not tell by some of my own fairly shoddy spelling on occasion - I may know a thing or two about ND and at the end of the day a contextual offer lowering the level of grades you need does not supplant the need to eb able to read and write well - yes there are coping mechanisms most of us imply, computers are a god send but the explosion in ND diagnoses and thus lower grade averages may help you get into med school but no patient gives toss about your inability to read or write when you are shocking their heart . cutting them up - they are relying on you being able to read and have been taught and examiend to the highest standard of all candidates.

Vile - is your derision for anyone other than resident doctors, your refusal to recognise that anyone other than a resident doctor has difficulties and your distortion of facts to fit your narrative. Yes there was more competiion this year gut 60% of training jobs went to UKMGS bucking the statistic of all the Overseas taking the majority of the jobs.

Most ukmg resident progress to their speciality within 4 yrs of finishing FY2 - please tell me what is wrong with that statistic?

What have PAs got to do with pay restoration on a flase incex than no one else uses to look at cost over time/

Not an attempt to silence anyone but the rudeness, and arrogance of the comments that they know best because thier children are doctors - bears no reality to those posters who are doctors, work in the health service. If you are not insupport of the strikes and there are many doctors whoa re not then youa re anti doctor - I am not anti doctor but anti false information and direspect of other peoples qualifications that 2 posters on here consistently express.

The derision for anyone but resident doctors, consultants are all considered privileged people who never had to abttel for their careers. The stats show the vast majority of ukmgs progress to further training within 3 yrs of FY2 - what is bad about that statistic - nothing.

My experience is valid, my opinion is based on fact and seeing the every day relaity of working on the shopfloor of the NHS

Thanks for the post.

These posters are on all a lot of the doctor threads especially when prioritisation of British Medical Graduates is mentioned..
I wonder why anyone would waste their energy posting...? Suggestions about motivation have been mentioned on other threads.

They work in teams and seek to discredit anyone that tells the truth. For example saying my DC is in a trust grade job was deliberately spun into me looking down on those in trust grade jobs. This was done to move the conversation away from the fact that the 2025 cohort of UKMGs had to compete with each other along with 20,803 IMGs. 63% of applicants for specialty training were from IMGs.

The points based system is not fair to UKMGs and there have been posts on other threads that it is open to manipulation from outside UK.

Why should thousands of UKMGs be unemployed due to too much competition from IMGs? It is madness having unemployed UKMGs while importing foreign doctors possibly from red list countries.

195 other countries prioritise their own medical graduates and the UK did until January 2020. Streeting could have introduced a new rule for the Oriel application cycle that all applicants should have 2 years NHS experience. That would have protected UKMGs and IMGs already working in the NHS for 2 years.

My DC did two years of surgical training and passed MRCS part A and B first time but now marking time as an SHO when he should be working as a reg in his chosen specialty and building on his skills. A poster on here seemed to think a year of a completely different job was useful to my DC.. The same poster that thought that doctors did not have to have their own indemnity insurance as they could rely on Crown Indemnity and made an unpleasant comment about ND. Vile.

My DC was at medical school when the decision to drop the Resident Market Labour Test was made. The result is it is destroying UKMGs chance of employment and progression.

A message to the more unbalanced posters
I see your name and immediately scroll on without reading.

This . Thank you for posting .

I’m very interested in what they have to say as I believe they are communicating honestly & in good faith amongst a sea of misinformation & maliciousness .I have learned from them .
These reads as yet another attempt to silence them & any other honest posters on this thread . Interesting!
Still supporting the doctors as I understand the facts behind their strike action .

You either need 5/6 years of medical school, 2 years foundation and 7+ years of speciality training to be a consultant. Or you don't and can just do a degree in horticulture and an 18month PA course. If the latter is 'equivalent' then fine, stop all doctor training now and give them their money back.
If a nurse is better than a doctor, again stop doctor training and have more nurses. Easy.s

Once again mums you miss the point. PAs, physios, nurses are not doctors and no one claims they are but they can be highly skilled in their area and AFC recognises differnet skill sets and qualifications are needed to make the healths ervice work. Yes to be hones tI would rather see a Band 7 nurse specialised in her area than an FY1, but ahve the FY1 along side learning all aspects of the care of the condition not just one view point. That you think an FY1 should be paid and given the respect of a nurse, physio of 20 yrs experience, masters degrees, courses and other post grad qualifications again displays your utter ignorance of the reality of ebing a doctor in the NHS.

That you and purple want to put doctors on a higher plane is heading back to an era that is long gone and good doctors, nurses, managers recognise the skill sets that each bring to the equation of health care. It does however, explain why our junior resident doctors have such an entitled attitude to pay, conditions and feel free to belittle and attack other parts of the cogs in healthcare.

Sorry FY1, FY2, CT1, CT2 doctors do not deserve to be paid more than expereinced nurses simply because they went to med school and have debt.

AS to your daughter in run through training she can always take a trust grade job and continue learning but you and purple think anyone in a trust grade job is a loser and not as good as those who do get a training number. I know very few consultants who went FY1/2. CT1.2, ST3-8, consultant - most have had some time out in low grade trust jobs, research,gone over seas and all will tell you they are better for it.

She's in run through training and if no jobs here she'll go to Aus or EU (has a passport due to me being from foreign descent and speaks fluent language)

Which is fine. But accept that most of those systems are insurance based and not free at the point of use. We can't have a "free" NHS and pay doctors much more.

Also most EU countries don't pay more, and AUS has a very high cost of living.

Sorry, who mentioned your dd?

Who attacked mums?

I explained how the numbers work that's all

Oh dear. Again rudeness. Never understand why some people can't disagree without making it personal. My own DD will be fine thanks. She's in run through training and if no jobs here she'll go to Aus or EU (has a passport due to me being from foreign descent and speaks fluent language). I'm not here as 'just a mum'. But you seem to always want to attack mums as if it's an insult ? Weird on a site called Mumsnet.

But some of you so obviously resent resident doctors. I just hope as you get older you never need one as they'll be gone. You'll get a nice PA/ACP though and you'll be happy with that so all good.

Merry Christmas.

Your concern for consultants is touching, is it because you have just found out that not all juniors who complete training will become consultants?
The maths is really simple. Something like 10000 per year emerging from medical school. Something like 2000 per year required at the top of the profession to replace retirees and leavers. The other 8000 per year will have to find something else to do.

I don't think anyone on here thinks that a PA is in any way better than a consultant?
They just think that junior doctors are paid enough given their relative inexperience and the fact that we are training far too many of them. (Hint, a glut of anything generally makes that thing cheaper.)

You either need 5/6 years of medical school, 2 years foundation and 7+ years of speciality training to be a consultant. Or you don't and can just do a degree in horticulture and an 18month PA course. If the latter is 'equivalent' then fine, stop all doctor training now and give them their money back.
If a nurse is better than a doctor, again stop doctor training and have more nurses. Easy.

Personally I'd like to see a doctor. And will continue to ask for one when ill.

The most ludicrous thing in pay terms is that new physician associates, who have a fraction of the training of newly qualified doctors, and who cannot even prescribe, have a higher starting salary. Our local medical school has both medical students and PA students. Because I regularly teach the med students, I was asked to cover a couple of the same topics with the final year PA students. I asked how I should adjust the level of teaching, and was told to keep it the same. Total disaster. The sessions are highly interactive, very much about activating prior learning and giving a scaffolding structure about which to assemble their knowledge. The 3rd and 4th year medical students love it, engage really well, and are frankly impressive. The PA students basically sat there. Not a fraction of the knowledge or engagement. And yet they will be paid more. I can honestly see why that pisses off the residents.

(And yes, we absolutely need the whole MDT, and yes you can use a competency based workforce: I have helped train some frankly amazing ACPs but it takes a long time and a lot of effort from everyone)

Like wise we do not accept what self invested parents claim as gospel when many of us work in the nhs alongside resident doctors and put up with the poor enitield behaviours by some.

Your failure to acknowledge that resident doctors do not run the nhs and are part of a massive multi disciplinary team which on the whole delivers excellent care to a large number of the population without major cock ups displays your ignorance. Your ignorance on pay and how the health service as a whole is structured for this - agenda for change shows your arrogance and rudeness.

AfC recognises qualifications and experience and if you mark where residents sit versus nurses physios, senior admin staff - then resident doctors do quite well. An experienced Band 6 nurses pay is on a par with and FY1 and FY2 - yet there are chasms in responsibility and experience that devalues the nurses time, effort and skills.

But then to some of the posters on here resident doctors can do no wrong and it is all the fault of everyone else.

Ironic.

No. I don't take orders from randoms with an over inflated opinion of their own importance.

Could you message mumsneedwine privately if you want to talk between yourselves about other posters because it distracts from the actual conversation on the thread; it's also childish.

Costs a fortune but the consultants have been round in force and discharged patients home in record times because they have experience and can be more decisive. Just means we’ve spent nearly £1m more than we should over the weekend!

My cousin trained with PWC and the hours were longer than a doctor without over time pay and the culture totally cut throat/bullying. We have resident doctors who refuse to work 10 minutes over without pay. It’s bizarre. I’m not saying people should work masses of overtime but early in your career it’s normal to do some imo.

@mumsneedwine they are so predictable!

I actually know someone who did FY1, FY2 and decided to leave and join PWC. If we have too many doctors trained then they have ample other careers to go into

contextal offers are not AAA they are significantly less and all docotrs in the past were lacking in empathy - different generational expectations of doctors and behaviours.

and if you use the retail price index nurses pay is down 45%.
If you use the consumer rice indeex which everyone else does - doctors are down 5%.Disingenuous bull shit by the BMA once again.

Fees in 1998 were not 9250 but then an SPR was not grossing 95K per annum , obviously prices have gone up as have salaries.

As to insulting purples son - no never have you ahve done that all yourself purple. You and patently your son aremiffed he did not get a CT number and consider the job je is doing a trust grade job is below him, not worthy and he is not progressing. Anyone in the health service will tellyou otherwise and it is very isnulting to docotros who get to CCT by moving every 6 months in trust grade jobs.

Ans onyone who says all doctors are equal and copetent obviously needs a statistics lesson and a look at bell curves.

A few have suggested to me that they’re thinking of applying and I’ve cautioned about the reality of competition - and yes absolutely, demands of the job.

😂

Most of them wouldn't stand a chance of a job at big 4 or magic circle! You need to be actually really clever for that, and to be prepared to work all the hours God sends.