Have I committed fraud?

Sorry but it is fraud

It is not fraud. Seriously. I wish people would stop posting like this. Yes she hasn't declared every bank account but plenty of people don't. Some people live in chaos. She doesn't have savings she hasn't declared. She is not getting UC she is not entitled to get. There's no fraud been committed

Does it give you pleasure to tell someone who is clearly very stressed that they've committed fraud when they haven't?

you need to declare everything , if they don’t take into account that’s fine but you must declare it they will be able to tell you have anither account from the activity on the other 2 . The short answer is yes it is fraud

Thank you you’re right to say that it is not classed as fraud but these are the guidelines:

If you don't provide bank statements for child maintenance info during a Universal Credit (UC) claim or review,
your payments can be suspended, your claim ended, and you might have to repay money received, as the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) needs to verify your income and capital to ensure you're getting the right amount. You must comply with requests for financial evidence; if you don't, they can deem you unable to verify your circumstances, leading to a "no entitlement" decision, even if you try to close your claim to avoid it.

I didn't say it did.

I said she has to declare them. Then DWP can have a look and it'll be fine.

That's right - but not doing so doesn't mean the OP has committed fraud

Yes you have to declare all of your bank accounts even if you have no savings.

It is not fraud - on any level. The OP does not have savings that she hasn't declared. As I said earlier in the thread that there are many people with chaotic lifestyles on benefits who get their finances into a mess and there are times where people have to pay money back because they have gone over 6k in savings - the dwp do not haul people into court unless they have committed significant and calculated fraud.

There will be no consequences from this. The OP will be asked why they didn't declare them sooner and that will be it

I contacted the dwp about some savings I have in an app that I had not declared because there was no way for me to do it via my journal

Their response was - we are only interested in savings over 6k

What trouble is the OP going to get in if she hasn't been hiding savings?

The money is child maintenance which is disregarded for benefit purposes

For all the Karen’s shouting about you “committing benefit fraud” 🙄 don’t listen nor worry, I understand why you felt that way, child maintenance isn’t included when calculating UC, but declare the accounts either way just to be safe, but it’s sounds like you don’t have sufficient funds to count as too high a capital, there’s a website called turn2us with a benefits calculator - go on and fill it out honestly - it’s not recorded or reported don’t worry - BUT it will let you see a true estimate of what your entitled to and what is deducted etc so please don’t worry and if in doubt it’s always best to be honest 😊 but child maintenance is a legal contribution to your kid/s so you shouldn’t feel bad for worrying about losing out, least your trying to find out 🤷🏻‍♀️ when I worked with citizens Avice I did benefit calculations for doctors , surgeons etc who had to go off on sick or leave work and it was always their savings that prevented full entitlement but they still got mortgage relief etc - the helps there for a reason

Yes it is fraud. I assume you were asked to provide all your bank statements before being granted UC? You should definitely provide them all now and accept the consequences, the longer you leave it the worse it will be.

A real fraudster would have wads of cash stashed in a safe. Keeping your money in bank accounts is not hiding it.

Just be honest and tell them you didn’t realise. It’s obvious it was an honest mistake- if you were really trying to hide it then you wouldn’t be moving money around between 3 accounts. You would be using each account separately.
im sure it will be ok.

Of course you need to declare everything, they are going to tighten things up because lots are not declaring stuff.

Don't worry. Just explain you didn't think you needed to declare the other accounts because you didn't have any money left over after your expenses and your child benefit wouldn't be counted. They have better things to do than "throw the book at you" as some people here have warned. For your own peace of mind, contact a free legal advice centre / advocate for people on social welfare. And stop worrying!

Contact Citizen's Advice and ask for advice. Morally you have done nothing wrong in my view; but CAB are experts in this area and will confidentially advise you

Well I don't hate you, I was on UC for many years myself, circumstances change. I just pulled the DWP card as you were were digging your heels in about me being wrong even when I was agreeing with you! I must learn how to walk away from an argument...

No I'm not. You're the one keeping this going. Goodnight

@Roobarbtwo I thought we'd moved on to a discussion on making an allegation of fraud stick. I'm not invested in anything; it seems you're just up for an argument and you're the one prolonging this. Anyway, good night.

You're wrong. She doesn't have over 6k in savings that the dwp don't know about. She's not committing fraud but you seem very invested in trying to say she has - why is that? I am going to say this one more time. When someone has said they are under stress. Leave them alone. Stop trying to find reasons to validate your point of view. The person doing the review will deal with this issue. Not you or me or anyone else on here

She is not committing fraud

I'm not sure you're entirely correct on this. My understanding is it has to be for the purpose of gain which, as you will know, is different from actual gain at the time. " ....is defined as the wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain."

Because to make an allegation of fraud stick there needs to be a gain or advantage.

On what's been posted the OP gained nothing.

Ah ok. You win. Silly me. Here I am being made a fool of by a dwp worker because I'm not one. When I googled it was quite clear that if someone had a million pounds in their bank for a certain time period it could be considered capital. Someone else said that they could spend a million pounds and I said that would be deprivation - sorry I said anything at all.

Right - I'll let you get on with your hypotheticals. No need to try and make a fool of someone because you're a dwp worker and I'm not.

Sorry about that - I'm just on UC myself and one of the people on here some people hate

No, you said that if they were given £1mil in child support that "there comes a point" that it would be treated as capital. I asked what point that was and you said if it was in their account for "too long" it would be treated as capital. I agree that if it is in the account longer than an assessment period it would be treated as capital, but in my hypothetical situation it is not. The rules have not been made with such a silly situation in mind so as I posted earlier, technically it would not be treated as capital. But what do I know? I only work for the DWP, you used Google.

I did read your posts. I posted earlier saying if someone had a million pounds and spent it it would be treated as deprivation of capital

I don't think I'm wrong on either point I made

My mistake, I thought you knew something I didn't, now I realise you just hadn't read my posts properly.
Yes, Google is correct. The hypothetical situation I laid out was someone who spent the entirety of the child maintenance every month so it was not in the account for long enough to be treated as savings.