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School absence rules are super powering the spread of flu

259 replies

Pavementworrier · 09/12/2025 19:17

And people will die unnecessarily as a result and it's really annoying

Why the hell can't there be a rule that kids with flu or suspected flu (at least during peak flu season) don't have absences counted??

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soupyspoon · 14/12/2025 20:39

Ghht · 11/12/2025 22:07

No, you’re mistaking that with a cold. I had the flu a few winters ago and it’s not something I’ve forgotten. It was Christmas Day and I was unable to get off the sofa, couldn’t eat Christmas dinner, couldn’t talk to anyone. I was haggard as a healthy individual in their mid 20s!!

No, you're wrong

Flu, like any virus can result in someone being bedriddeen or just a bit sniffly or in fact asymptomatic.

Dwappy · 14/12/2025 19:13

Ghht · 11/12/2025 22:07

No, you’re mistaking that with a cold. I had the flu a few winters ago and it’s not something I’ve forgotten. It was Christmas Day and I was unable to get off the sofa, couldn’t eat Christmas dinner, couldn’t talk to anyone. I was haggard as a healthy individual in their mid 20s!!

As has been pointed out on here repeatedly, flu is a virus. And like all viruses it can hit people differently. Remember those with Covid who were bed bound? And those that barely noticed? Some had zero symptoms and would never even have known unless they tested etc. Flu is the same. You can absolutely be up and walking about with flu. You can also be totally asymptomatic. You can be totally bed bound for days or weeks. And it can kill.

DontGoJasonWaterfalls · 13/12/2025 15:22

FlyingCatGirl · 13/12/2025 07:53

You personally derailed this! I was talking about how there's a lot of kids in the shopping centres instead of at school right now and you stole the thread to make a stupid claim that lots of kids are home educated and go to shopping centres and cafes during the day which is false! You made it into a brag about you! Not that many families can afford for mum to live off Dad's money and certainly not take kids shopping and to sporting activities everyday! You derailed this thread to brag!

You did that childish thing where you told me nothing except that you only educate your kid between 7am and 9am, that was all you admitted to! You never mentioned any other education or activities! You certainly never said anything about teaching between 3pm & 7pm, it was me that gave it as an example and suddenly you've used it as a defence. Do you always make you kid work tired and force the family to not sit down to a meal til near 8pm at night! It just doesn't ring true! But don't do the thing of being secretive and then reeling off things in defence that you claim we should magically have known! That's a concerning level of immaturity for a so-called educator!

Let's look at how much worse you made yourself look with your "because you're not capable of home teaching" comment! I don't have kids but if I wanted to home teach, guess what?? I hold the National Level 3 Award in Education and Teaching and I'm an experienced Health and Safety Trainer! What was your experience and qualifications when you pulled your kid out of school?

Your reason for pulling her out of school sound creepy as fuck, you felt she was too special for the school and they weren't accelerating her - what training and qualifications have you got to accelerate her! And your absolutely jealousy of her being around kids her own age! That's a horrible attitude that kids her own age aren't good enough and clingy mummy needs to be her only friend! She needs to socialise with other kids rather than being suffocated by you 12 hours a day. Also I don't get the panic to make her exams younger than normal! Are colleges and universities going to take a 12 year old as I that's how old I was in year 7 as I recall. At least you'll see sooner rather than later if you've done more harm than good.

You should never have derailed this thread when you knew damn well it had nothing to do with home educated kids.

Genuinely, are you ok? Your reply seems a little unhinged. It might be time to take a step back if you're getting so wound up. I'm not bragging; you're making a huge assumption about our family set up and it's an inaccurate one.

I suggested one possible reason why children are out of school on a school day (because we often are out and about on "school days", because school days don't exist when you home ed), you turned it into a massive thing about your ill-informed opinions on home ed. I have no need to brag, but it's important to correct incorrect assumptions - if you're interpreting this as bragging, all I can say is thank you, I'm proud of what she's achieving ☺️

You're getting angry at me for being "secretive" - with respect, I don't owe you or anyone else a detailed rundown of when her education takes place or what it involves (except our EHE officer at the local authority, who is supporting us with the early GCSEs and very pleased with DD's progress). She isn't going to uni at 12 you daftie, she's spreading out her GCSEs. Did you miss where I talked about extracurricular activities? I must be hallucinating her lovely friends at Guides and drama and sports clubs, and her old school friends that she's stayed in touch with, and her new home ed friends.

Experience and qualifications - First class degree, Distinction at PGCE, experienced classroom teacher, award winning vocational trainer and training developer. Qualifications aren't mandatory to home educate, but classroom experience directly contributed to our decision.

FlyingCatGirl · 13/12/2025 07:53

DontGoJasonWaterfalls · 13/12/2025 00:02

There are so many wrong assumptions in this post 🤣

If you don't think you're capable of home educating a child, that's fine. You don't have to 🙂

FWIW I removed my daughter from school because no local schools allow pupils to be accelerated and insist on mixed ability classes, which - from my own teaching experience - has a negative impact on higher ability pupils. As a result of one-to-one learning at home, she's worked through most of the KS3 Maths syllabus in what would be the first term of Year 7, and sits her first GCSE in May. Children learn far faster through one-on-one teaching and don't always need to be sat still and quietly for hours for it (although DD is getting lots of practice for that at the moment during mock exams and practice questions); that's why people pay so much for private tutoring.

Also not sure why you assume she's "messing around" for the rest of the day - she spends her spare time reading, coding, rock climbing and going to various extra curricular activities. You've got a strange idea of what constitutes messing around. I also said "often", not "always" - some days look like I described above; some days she will work solidly from 7am until 7pm. That flexibility will be better preparation for the real world than 9am - 3pm five days a week in a room with children with whom she has nothing in common but a birth year.

Anyway, you've derailed the thread enough, if you'd like to rant about home ed there's plenty of wind about for you to piss into.

You personally derailed this! I was talking about how there's a lot of kids in the shopping centres instead of at school right now and you stole the thread to make a stupid claim that lots of kids are home educated and go to shopping centres and cafes during the day which is false! You made it into a brag about you! Not that many families can afford for mum to live off Dad's money and certainly not take kids shopping and to sporting activities everyday! You derailed this thread to brag!

You did that childish thing where you told me nothing except that you only educate your kid between 7am and 9am, that was all you admitted to! You never mentioned any other education or activities! You certainly never said anything about teaching between 3pm & 7pm, it was me that gave it as an example and suddenly you've used it as a defence. Do you always make you kid work tired and force the family to not sit down to a meal til near 8pm at night! It just doesn't ring true! But don't do the thing of being secretive and then reeling off things in defence that you claim we should magically have known! That's a concerning level of immaturity for a so-called educator!

Let's look at how much worse you made yourself look with your "because you're not capable of home teaching" comment! I don't have kids but if I wanted to home teach, guess what?? I hold the National Level 3 Award in Education and Teaching and I'm an experienced Health and Safety Trainer! What was your experience and qualifications when you pulled your kid out of school?

Your reason for pulling her out of school sound creepy as fuck, you felt she was too special for the school and they weren't accelerating her - what training and qualifications have you got to accelerate her! And your absolutely jealousy of her being around kids her own age! That's a horrible attitude that kids her own age aren't good enough and clingy mummy needs to be her only friend! She needs to socialise with other kids rather than being suffocated by you 12 hours a day. Also I don't get the panic to make her exams younger than normal! Are colleges and universities going to take a 12 year old as I that's how old I was in year 7 as I recall. At least you'll see sooner rather than later if you've done more harm than good.

You should never have derailed this thread when you knew damn well it had nothing to do with home educated kids.

SleepingStandingUp · 13/12/2025 01:40

FlyingCatGirl · 12/12/2025 08:45

Of course they do! They aren't getting educated going shopping with mummy everyday or playing outside. Kids won't sit and learn unless you make them. Expecting them to sit and learn from 3pm to 7pm when they are knackered from being over stimulated all day and might want to go out and play with other kids after their school day is insane to me. Home education is a bit lost on me because it's seemingly not regulated to ensure the full curriculum is being taught and what qualifies a mother to suddenly be able to teach all of the subjects.

For me kids need to learn routine because mummy won't be able to take them out of sixth form, college, uni, workplaces to go shopping and have fun for several hours a day! They've got to learn that they will at some point have to sit and focus for many hours a day. Most working days are usually 8 til 5 nowadays, that's 8 hours of sitting and working! Not good of you've only been taught to sit and focus for two hours in a morning. It'll take a toll on them mentally.

well it depends on the ages. shopping for food could be turned into a maths lesson, part of home economics, it could incorporate geography around air miles etc.

kids play outside during the day as part of school! PE, science, all sorts of lessons can be incorporated into playing outdoors.

trips out to the museum, art gallery, science parks etc.

and I don't think pp said she only teaches from 3-7, just that is isn't compulsory to do it from 9-3. and kids in school absolutely don't sit at a desk for 8 hours solid.

9 am assembly, 10.30 playtime, 12.30 lunch time, possibly an afternoon break. then the last part of the day is costs and carpet time / singing etc in primary schools. so in 6.5 hours only 5 of that is actual class time. 1 teacher to 30, imagine how much more you could do if you only had 1 kid...

LemaxObsessive · 13/12/2025 00:33

SleepingStandingUp · 10/12/2025 22:52

if 60% were actually off and the teachers were sending letters home to parents sending sick kids in, wouldn't the school have been better off making a fire break and just closing for a week?

100% agree! But the new headteacher is like a wolf in sheep’s clothing and ONLY cares about attendance

DontGoJasonWaterfalls · 13/12/2025 00:02

FlyingCatGirl · 12/12/2025 08:31

It depends, a small child isn't going to do well being educated at night when they are tired and ready for bed and two hours solid education a day in the morning isn't going to get them through the curriculum. Older kids need a life with other kids after school so they'll get restless having to sit and be taught in the evenings, they won't necessarily want to be dragged shopping with mum either so what are you actually achieving? Them sitting around waiting for you to educate them?

You set your kids up to struggle because when they go to college, university and the workplace they will not cope! They don't know what a full day routine is! It'll seem like a 30 hour day to them because mummy only ever made them sit and learn for two hours at a time! You cannot avoid routine in life! You might have the good fortune to not need to work and have most of the day having fun but that's not their future and the working day has got longer! Don't set them up for major mental health issues! Make them sit and focus for longer periods before too much damage is done! Where would most of us be now if our parents pulled us out of school and gave us only a small amount of education everyday and let us mess around for the rest of the day!

There are so many wrong assumptions in this post 🤣

If you don't think you're capable of home educating a child, that's fine. You don't have to 🙂

FWIW I removed my daughter from school because no local schools allow pupils to be accelerated and insist on mixed ability classes, which - from my own teaching experience - has a negative impact on higher ability pupils. As a result of one-to-one learning at home, she's worked through most of the KS3 Maths syllabus in what would be the first term of Year 7, and sits her first GCSE in May. Children learn far faster through one-on-one teaching and don't always need to be sat still and quietly for hours for it (although DD is getting lots of practice for that at the moment during mock exams and practice questions); that's why people pay so much for private tutoring.

Also not sure why you assume she's "messing around" for the rest of the day - she spends her spare time reading, coding, rock climbing and going to various extra curricular activities. You've got a strange idea of what constitutes messing around. I also said "often", not "always" - some days look like I described above; some days she will work solidly from 7am until 7pm. That flexibility will be better preparation for the real world than 9am - 3pm five days a week in a room with children with whom she has nothing in common but a birth year.

Anyway, you've derailed the thread enough, if you'd like to rant about home ed there's plenty of wind about for you to piss into.

FlyingCatGirl · 12/12/2025 08:45

FightNight · 11/12/2025 20:50

So the question becomes “do children have to be sat quietly inside to be learning”

Of course they do! They aren't getting educated going shopping with mummy everyday or playing outside. Kids won't sit and learn unless you make them. Expecting them to sit and learn from 3pm to 7pm when they are knackered from being over stimulated all day and might want to go out and play with other kids after their school day is insane to me. Home education is a bit lost on me because it's seemingly not regulated to ensure the full curriculum is being taught and what qualifies a mother to suddenly be able to teach all of the subjects.

For me kids need to learn routine because mummy won't be able to take them out of sixth form, college, uni, workplaces to go shopping and have fun for several hours a day! They've got to learn that they will at some point have to sit and focus for many hours a day. Most working days are usually 8 til 5 nowadays, that's 8 hours of sitting and working! Not good of you've only been taught to sit and focus for two hours in a morning. It'll take a toll on them mentally.

FlyingCatGirl · 12/12/2025 08:31

DontGoJasonWaterfalls · 11/12/2025 21:43

A lot of children struggle with routine, and struggle to sit and concentrate on education between 9 and 3. There's nothing magical about those hours.

DD will often wake up early and do a couple of hours 7am - 9am, then we'll be out in the day either at clubs and activities or just everyday life. She's also content working of an evening, and learning happens at weekends too ☺️

Not to mention, a child doesn't have to be sitting still at a desk to be learning.

Edited

It depends, a small child isn't going to do well being educated at night when they are tired and ready for bed and two hours solid education a day in the morning isn't going to get them through the curriculum. Older kids need a life with other kids after school so they'll get restless having to sit and be taught in the evenings, they won't necessarily want to be dragged shopping with mum either so what are you actually achieving? Them sitting around waiting for you to educate them?

You set your kids up to struggle because when they go to college, university and the workplace they will not cope! They don't know what a full day routine is! It'll seem like a 30 hour day to them because mummy only ever made them sit and learn for two hours at a time! You cannot avoid routine in life! You might have the good fortune to not need to work and have most of the day having fun but that's not their future and the working day has got longer! Don't set them up for major mental health issues! Make them sit and focus for longer periods before too much damage is done! Where would most of us be now if our parents pulled us out of school and gave us only a small amount of education everyday and let us mess around for the rest of the day!

Owl55 · 11/12/2025 23:08

Grandaughter had raging temp for 3 days , couldn’t get it down ,cough and feeling v poorly she went to local walk in clinic and wasn’t getting any better , diagnosed with flu , mum was told she may feel poorly for up to 3 weeks . She was absent from school for about 10 /12 days , school constantly ringing about her abscence and demanded proof from walk in clinic that she had attended there and was genuinely ill. It was very frustrating that school demanded proof and walk in centre had to sign a slip proving it ! The following week at least 10 children in her class were off with the same symptoms and missed receiving the nasal flu spray .

soundsys · 11/12/2025 22:34

I mean, I don't disagree that the absence policies can be a bit much but... If your child isnt well enough to go to school surely you just... Keep them off school regardless?

Accaron · 11/12/2025 22:13

Celestialmoods · 11/12/2025 15:45

@Accaron
Or they could stop trying to blame kids/ parents and pretending that absences are because they don’t bother to send them - which is vanishingly rare -

It is not vanishingly rare at all. It is very common for parents to keep healthy children off school for various reasons. That’s the problem. It is their job fault of parents.

Most attendance awards don’t expect 100% attendance anyway, so there is already leeway for normal illness.

Yes, it is if you look at the statistics in the statistically validated academic research. Over 90% of cases of children with poor attendance records or children who end up out of school entirely relate to children with neurodiversity - the vast majority of them diagnosed as autistic - for whom the state school system as currently designed is completely inappropriate. Local Authorities/ the DfE know that this is a fact, as has repeatedly been proved, yet continue to refuse to provide appropriate educational environments for these children, traumatise the children and gaslight/ blame/ threaten their parents.

This is by FAR the main factor in poor attendance rates nationally and is an absolute scandal: a systemic failing of a significant minority of children which is known and yet is deliberately continued with no suitable schools provided for these children, instead knowingly subjecting them to immense and lifelong mental health damage and, in many cases, ruining their life chances and any prospect of them reaching their potential.

All other factors influencing poor attendance are either unavoidable (e.g. children who are genuinely ill and should not be at school), or insignificant distractions (by magnitude) e.g. parents taking their children on holidays or the vanishingly small - and that IS what they are, statistically - proportion of parents who simply “can’t be bothered to send their children to school”; clearly such cases will exist but they categorically are not anywhere close to being the primary cause of the poor attendance rates nationally and therefore should not be where efforts and resources are directed before solutions are put in place to address the issue which has been proved to be by far the largest cause of absences, per multiple pieces of robust and statistically validated research on the topic.

Therefore, bullying perfectly sensible parents because they have kept unwell children with infectious diseases off school (rightly), shaming children, telling children not being ill is “an achievement”, or making children feel like they have somehow failed because they were ill and their parents made the responsible choice to keep them at home while sick, is not only inappropriate but will also do nothing significant to improve overall school attendance rates because it is not the primary cause of poor attendance in the first place. In fact, as any credible epidemiologist would tell you, it is actually extremely counterproductive to have such policies because encouraging/ coercing/ normalising sending infectious children into school quite obviously increases the overall number of sick days of both children and members of school staff.

This is classic “busy work”; a futile (and actually self-sabotaging) attempt to try to make it look like they are “doing something” about “the problem” when in fact it is misdirection because by far the primary cause of poor school attendance is not responsible parents keeping sick children at home or taking them to medical appointments: this is a distraction from the underlying cause that needs to be addressed, and a deliberate distraction designed to externalise the blame onto families because schools, Local Authorities and the DfE don’t want to deal with the actual problem because it is entirely their responsibility to fix and outwith the control of parents. The primary cause of high school absence rates - causing levels of absence orders of magnitude higher than any other factor or even all other factors combined - is that the structure of the state school system is completely inappropriate and inaccessible for a large minority of pupils and that despite the DfE being fully aware of this it continually refuses to provide appropriate schools that these children CAN attend sustainably, despite the majority of them desperately wanting to do so and their parents also wanting this, in fact in many cases fighting these “authorities” that claim they want children to attend school for YEARS through courts to make it possible for their children to receive any education at all.

Poor attendance is associated with poor educational outcomes, as other posters have noted. So why is the primary cause of poor attendance by far being ignored, with parents who try to address these issues with schools and Local Authorities being gaslit and ignored and forced to fight protracted legal battles with Local Authorities behaving illegally, sometimes for YEARS, simply to get them to comply with the basic requirements in the Education Act and the Human Rights Act for every child to be able to access education? Many of these children are left with no access to education for months or YEARS despite their parents’ best efforts to fight for this basic right for them.

Meanwhile we have idiots pretending that the school attendance problem is that Luke’s family took him out of school two days before the end of term so that they could afford a holiday, or that Emily stayed off for three days with a bad cold. And apparently Luke and Emily’s life chances will now be ruined. But it’s apparently fiiiiinnnnnneeee to leave many other children with no access to education at all for months or years on end.

I refer you back to the extremely large grey animal sitting in the room, making trumpeting sounds, spraying water and flapping its very large ears around trying to attract attention of the seemingly oblivious and self-righteous so-called “education professionals” in the hope that at some point the DfE, Local Authorities and teachers will acknowledge the poor grey animal’s existence.

Attendance rates will not improve significantly until these “professionals” and “authorities” stop expressing faux concern and trying to displace blame onto families and actually address the underlying cause of the vast majority of cases of low attendance.

Don’t hold your breath.

RealOliveTraybake · 11/12/2025 22:09

BorgQueen · 09/12/2025 19:29

Unfortunately the vaccine this year is only 30% effective, which is rubbish.
Add to this classrooms with no ventilation and it’s germ soup.
There ought to be hepa air purifiers in every class without an opening window.
I’m sure my Grandson’s school is faring better because they actually open windows plus the younger kids can go outside in bad weather because of covered areas.

Unless every person is breathing into it, this won't make any difference at all.

Ghht · 11/12/2025 22:07

soupyspoon · 10/12/2025 07:57

Its true you can be up and about with flu but then thats just like having a cold or sniffle which most people just work through, kids or adults. My OH was ill yesterday but today he's fine, he might have a flu virus, or he might not, what are people supposed to do, stay at home forever?

No, you’re mistaking that with a cold. I had the flu a few winters ago and it’s not something I’ve forgotten. It was Christmas Day and I was unable to get off the sofa, couldn’t eat Christmas dinner, couldn’t talk to anyone. I was haggard as a healthy individual in their mid 20s!!

SleepingStandingUp · 11/12/2025 21:59

Celestialmoods · 11/12/2025 12:25

I don’t know, like I said, I don’t like attendance awards. But it is a fact that poor attendance reduces successful educational outcomes, and that means there is pressure from the top on schools to improve attendance rates. Children are used because it’s about them, and it is the only thing that might make parents think twice when deciding to book a cheap holiday or have a lazy day off.

if I was inclined to book a term time holiday to save £££, I don't think a certificate and a bag of haribo would sway me to not to do it. and if DC cried and said but I want my prize, it would be cheaper to buy it than go on holiday in August.

if I often decided it took less effort to keep the kids home than get them to school (ha!!) again I don't believe a card and some sweets would make me less lazy.

the kids who are eager to please and impress the teacher and unlikely to be the school refuses.

I'd love to see the results of a study on these prizes and actual attendance

DontGoJasonWaterfalls · 11/12/2025 21:59

InlandTaipan · 11/12/2025 21:58

Absolutely not. I taught mine to read by climbing trees and they picked up fractions whilst fucking about with a football. And Minecraft covered the rest.

🙄

InlandTaipan · 11/12/2025 21:58

FightNight · 11/12/2025 20:50

So the question becomes “do children have to be sat quietly inside to be learning”

Absolutely not. I taught mine to read by climbing trees and they picked up fractions whilst fucking about with a football. And Minecraft covered the rest.

DontGoJasonWaterfalls · 11/12/2025 21:43

FlyingCatGirl · 11/12/2025 20:09

I'm not sure I believe the young kids will diligently sit and concentrate on education from say 3pm to 7pm. I also imagine a lot of kids would struggle without routine.

A lot of children struggle with routine, and struggle to sit and concentrate on education between 9 and 3. There's nothing magical about those hours.

DD will often wake up early and do a couple of hours 7am - 9am, then we'll be out in the day either at clubs and activities or just everyday life. She's also content working of an evening, and learning happens at weekends too ☺️

Not to mention, a child doesn't have to be sitting still at a desk to be learning.

FightNight · 11/12/2025 20:50

FlyingCatGirl · 11/12/2025 20:09

I'm not sure I believe the young kids will diligently sit and concentrate on education from say 3pm to 7pm. I also imagine a lot of kids would struggle without routine.

So the question becomes “do children have to be sat quietly inside to be learning”

AdjustingVideoFrameRate · 11/12/2025 20:22

Franjipanl8r · 11/12/2025 04:13

There isn’t enough fresh air in schools. Windows are tight shut in winter and not enough stale air is refreshed. This speeds up the spread and transmission of viruses massively.

Agree, and there’s not enough ventilation anywhere really. Offices, hotels, trains, public buildings, hospitals, surgeries, restaurants - the number of places which have sealed windows or hard to open windows is awful. We need fresh air and re-freshed air. I thought this would all change after Covid but sadly not.

FlyingCatGirl · 11/12/2025 20:09

DontGoJasonWaterfalls · 11/12/2025 19:57

The nice thing about home education is that it doesn't have to happen between the hours of 9am - 3pm, so children could absolutely be out and about in the middle of the day and still receiving a full time education 🙂

I'm not sure I believe the young kids will diligently sit and concentrate on education from say 3pm to 7pm. I also imagine a lot of kids would struggle without routine.

DontGoJasonWaterfalls · 11/12/2025 19:57

FlyingCatGirl · 11/12/2025 19:53

No, it's not like what I saw yesterday all the time, you would honesty have thought it was a Saturday or a school holiday. Ii would hope home educators actually educate their kids during the week too!

The nice thing about home education is that it doesn't have to happen between the hours of 9am - 3pm, so children could absolutely be out and about in the middle of the day and still receiving a full time education 🙂

FlyingCatGirl · 11/12/2025 19:56

pssssst · 11/12/2025 19:38

I've seen lots of kids in supermarkets and shops this week too. Why? Not even private schools have closed yet.

I am wondering if some parents are willing to sacrifice their kids education and pay fines to pull kids out of school now for fear of the kids bringing illness into the house and ruining Xmas but taking them to busy shopping centres and cafes is ridiculous if they are panicking about them picking up bugs and viruses.

FlyingCatGirl · 11/12/2025 19:53

DontGoJasonWaterfalls · 11/12/2025 19:47

Increasing numbers of children being home educated? We were out and about with DD for much of yesterday.

No, it's not like what I saw yesterday all the time, you would honesty have thought it was a Saturday or a school holiday. Ii would hope home educators actually educate their kids during the week too!

DontGoJasonWaterfalls · 11/12/2025 19:47

pssssst · 11/12/2025 19:38

I've seen lots of kids in supermarkets and shops this week too. Why? Not even private schools have closed yet.

Increasing numbers of children being home educated? We were out and about with DD for much of yesterday.

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