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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To refuse to be a witness against colleague??

667 replies

Pukkajones · 09/12/2025 14:28

Christmas party, a few nights ago. At a hotel, as it was timed with a big sales meeting, so everyone staying over, 200 ish people, free bar as well as a formal dinner.
Drinking very much encouraged. Staff ages ranged from early 20s to the senior staff in their 50s. Everyone VERY merry.
One colleague, let’s call her Jenny, got a bit carried away, throwing shapes on the dance floor, too touchy feely with men and women apparently then groped one older male colleagues testicles at which point friends grabbed hold of her and steered her off up stairs to her room.
She escaped. Came back down - paralytic at this point - and flashed her boobs at a senior male colleague! In the side bar area so fewer people around me being one of them. Another colleague and I intervened and friends got her again and put her to bed, this time someone stayed with her.

Now I’m being asked to come and tell what I saw to her line manager. I’m in training for an event at the moment so it’s common knowledge that I wasn’t drinking and was sober.

I really don’t want to. She’s lovely, usually quiet and sensible, the company got her poleaxed and now want to carpet her. I’m not a bloody snitch plus - why can’t the guy she flashed at say what happened. Why do I need to be involved???

I’ve been working away since the party so have no idea what is being said in office other than the OMG, Jenny! What was she doing??? Messages. But trust me, there’s plenty of stories from that night… so she’s in good company.

YABU - snitch on her. A man doing that would be in so much trouble.

YANBU - deny seeing anything. If the company ply everyone with that much booze there’s bound to be uncouth behaviour and they probably have enough witnesses already.

OP posts:
OriginalUsername2 · 10/12/2025 13:35

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 10/12/2025 13:30

Would they have to feel ‘threatened’, @OriginalUsername2? What if they were physically hurt, offended, or simply upset by the assault - isn’t that sufficiently serious?

I do not understand why people are so happy to dismiss or minimise the feelings of a man who has been groped in a very sensitive and private place.

I don’t think the man has complained! Someone has reported the woman for flashing.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 10/12/2025 13:30

Would they have to feel ‘threatened’, @OriginalUsername2? What if they were physically hurt, offended, or simply upset by the assault - isn’t that sufficiently serious?

I do not understand why people are so happy to dismiss or minimise the feelings of a man who has been groped in a very sensitive and private place.

OriginalUsername2 · 10/12/2025 13:13

Ask your DP’s if they’d feel threatened by a tit flash or a grope of the balls at a drunken party to get some perspective.

ilovesooty · 10/12/2025 12:34

fatphalange · 10/12/2025 12:30

Irrelevant. Not what OP was asked about. Some people are being contrary on purpose as I refuse to believe reading comprehension could be this bad.

Agreed. She didn't see the alleged sexual assault and can't comment on it. She did however see the flashing but is pretending she didn't.

fatphalange · 10/12/2025 12:32

JudgeJ · 10/12/2025 09:52

A lairy drunk female is in no way comparable to a male drunk groping women.

Absolute garbage, even on MN, the home of hypocrisy"! She was groping, can you not read or are you saying that testicles are less important than breasts and/of fannies? There are many many women who trot off down to HR if a man even makes a complimentary comment about her appearance and she has 'stress', 'anxiety' even PTSD because of his verbal assault!

Spoken like a true woman-hater. Christ.

ilovesooty · 10/12/2025 12:31

godmum56 · 10/12/2025 11:24

It occurs to me that if the OP does feign shakey memory, there will be people in the company who will know that she is a liar and will lie. This may matter a lot where she works, it may not matter at all, or it may matter a great deal. Where I used to work, it would have mattered...... Whatever her company's attitude, once she has lied there is no going back.

Good point. Her willingness to lie might well be noted and cause future reputational damage. There will have been people present who will be aware of what she witnessed.

fatphalange · 10/12/2025 12:30

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 10/12/2025 12:11

And if you were sexually assaulted, would you be happy if any witnesses to that assault also decided they hadn’t seen anything, @VikaOlson?

This woman sexually assaulted a man by grabbing his testicles - are you honestly saying you think that is acceptable behaviour?

Irrelevant. Not what OP was asked about. Some people are being contrary on purpose as I refuse to believe reading comprehension could be this bad.

fatphalange · 10/12/2025 12:28

TrippingOverMyAssets · 10/12/2025 08:57

Another one playing sexual assault down just because it wasn’t done by a man. No, because she didn’t want to say the woman got her tits out and grabbed a man’s testicles.

The ‘sexual assault’ was hearsay. Have you been able to read the OPs posts? There’s nothing to be played down 🙄

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 10/12/2025 12:11

VikaOlson · 09/12/2025 23:51

I wouldn't have seen anything.

And if you were sexually assaulted, would you be happy if any witnesses to that assault also decided they hadn’t seen anything, @VikaOlson?

This woman sexually assaulted a man by grabbing his testicles - are you honestly saying you think that is acceptable behaviour?

SnakesandKnives · 10/12/2025 11:58

Gloriia · 10/12/2025 11:16

Yes 'I can read', there's really no need to be so rude.

Many posters are being absolutely disingenuous. We all know, for example, a group of drunk women at a male strip show is nowhere like the same vibe as when a group of drunk men are at a female strip show.

Men are predatory and threatening, women are not.

I've no idea why anyone would shoehorn distressing child sex abuse into a post about a work's drunkern night out as if anyway comparable.

Edited

Okay I totally and utterly disagree with your second paragraph. The worst female behaviour I have ever seen, and it was by multiple women, was at a Chippendales show for a hen do. It was absolutely predatory. Grim as fuck too.

In this instance I don’t think the two things are in the same ballpark as each other

  1. groping guy. Assault. Obviously serious and if he/someone complained needs acting on
  2. flashing Boobs or bra (tenner days it was actually the former as the OP clearly minimised everything here). For me…’meh’. If a man mooned me or flashed his pants or his chest I’d think ‘idiotic’ but nothing more. If he got his dick out, different. If she’d flashed her Fanny I’d also think differently.

i am interested so many people want to blame the company for providing free drink though. Fuck personal responsibility eh?

godmum56 · 10/12/2025 11:24

It occurs to me that if the OP does feign shakey memory, there will be people in the company who will know that she is a liar and will lie. This may matter a lot where she works, it may not matter at all, or it may matter a great deal. Where I used to work, it would have mattered...... Whatever her company's attitude, once she has lied there is no going back.

Gloriia · 10/12/2025 11:16

JudgeJ · 10/12/2025 09:52

A lairy drunk female is in no way comparable to a male drunk groping women.

Absolute garbage, even on MN, the home of hypocrisy"! She was groping, can you not read or are you saying that testicles are less important than breasts and/of fannies? There are many many women who trot off down to HR if a man even makes a complimentary comment about her appearance and she has 'stress', 'anxiety' even PTSD because of his verbal assault!

Yes 'I can read', there's really no need to be so rude.

Many posters are being absolutely disingenuous. We all know, for example, a group of drunk women at a male strip show is nowhere like the same vibe as when a group of drunk men are at a female strip show.

Men are predatory and threatening, women are not.

I've no idea why anyone would shoehorn distressing child sex abuse into a post about a work's drunkern night out as if anyway comparable.

SorcererGaheris · 10/12/2025 11:12

Gloriia · 09/12/2025 18:39

Well sorry thst happened to you but not sure of the relevance here? You suffered sexual buse. This was not that.

Males are predatory, drunkern women are not.

@Gloriia

I don't think that's true as a blanket statement. Some drunken women (yes, a very small minority, admittedly) are most likely predatory.

We also don't know the background/history/mental and emotional well-being of all victims. I can agree, in theory, that many, perhaps most, men, would not feel threatened by a woman flashing her breasts, but SOME men may feel threatened and frightened.

SorcererGaheris · 10/12/2025 11:04

InveterateWineDrinker · 09/12/2025 18:14

Jesus Christ on a stick.

I am a man who, as a 9-13 year old choirboy in one of the UK's allegedly most prestigious prep schools was routinely groped by the choirmaster and the priest. I was there on a scholarship and it was made quite clear I'd lose my place in the school if I said anything.

It is extremely offensive to me and many, many others when it is casually suggested that sexual violence against males is somehow less worthy of censure, simply because the victim is a male. It beggars belief that anyone thinks it, never mind says it out loud.

@InveterateWineDrinker

I just want to let you know that I am extremely sorry that you experienced such sexual abuse as a child - I certainly don't think that sexual violence against males is less worthy of censure.

Hoppinggreen · 10/12/2025 10:54

TealScroller · 10/12/2025 10:08

It's a very awkward one, yes she did something catastrophically awful but workplaces need to be more responsible. Parties are thrown, sometimes booze paid for, everyone encouraged to have fun, then when people get too drunk they get in the shit.

And yet every year thousands of people attend such events without sexually assaulting someone or flashing their tits

Rustymoo · 10/12/2025 10:12

Wishitsnows · 09/12/2025 14:58

I wouldn’t do anything or give a statement. However I would if the sexes were reversed.

WTF.

TealScroller · 10/12/2025 10:08

It's a very awkward one, yes she did something catastrophically awful but workplaces need to be more responsible. Parties are thrown, sometimes booze paid for, everyone encouraged to have fun, then when people get too drunk they get in the shit.

ComtesseDeSpair · 10/12/2025 10:05

LovesLabradors · 10/12/2025 09:48

Yes, a bloke flashing his pants at the Xmas party is a non-event. I would think the guy is a drunken idiot, but I wouldn't consider it reportable to HR.
I also wouldn't grass him up to management.

I mean, I’d probably feel the same way - but I wouldn’t blame other women for feeling differently and being upset by it. For e.g. somebody with a background of child or adult sexual abuse, of either sex, it could be a lot less of a non-event.

_nellie_ · 10/12/2025 10:02

Pukkajones · 09/12/2025 14:51

Depends. If the office nice guy got paralytic and showed everyone his pants - I wouldn’t.
If it was some dickhead, maybe but actually probably not.

But if an office guy grabbed a woman’s vagina I’m sure you wouldn’t think twice

JudgeJ · 10/12/2025 09:52

A lairy drunk female is in no way comparable to a male drunk groping women.

Absolute garbage, even on MN, the home of hypocrisy"! She was groping, can you not read or are you saying that testicles are less important than breasts and/of fannies? There are many many women who trot off down to HR if a man even makes a complimentary comment about her appearance and she has 'stress', 'anxiety' even PTSD because of his verbal assault!

LovesLabradors · 10/12/2025 09:48

TrippingOverMyAssets · 10/12/2025 09:01

So a man drunkenly flashing his pants at the office do would also be a non event in your opinion?

Yes, a bloke flashing his pants at the Xmas party is a non-event. I would think the guy is a drunken idiot, but I wouldn't consider it reportable to HR.
I also wouldn't grass him up to management.

Thatsalineallright · 10/12/2025 09:45

This thread reads like a textbook for the excuses given when a man is arrested for rape/assault but is then let off or given a ridiculously reduced sentence.

  1. the man was drunk and so couldn't possibly be responsible for his own actions.

  2. the man is an upstanding member of the community and so shouldn't be judged by this one event.

  3. this is the first time the man has ever done this and so he should be given a second chance.

  4. the man is now very sorry and regrets his actions, so there's no point punishing him harshly.

  5. the woman was wearing indecent clothing/flirting/asking for it so really shouldn't be upset and shouldn't complain.

I fully acknowledge that groping someone at a Christmas party is not the same as rape, but the excuses are very similar. When society is happy to use and accept those excuses in one situation, the same excuses can and will be used in other situations as well.

ClaredeBear · 10/12/2025 09:36

Pukkajones · 09/12/2025 16:43

People love a bit of drama don’t they?? As I said I saw ( or did I?) some silly but harmless behaviour. So I won’t be joining any witch hunts. Nor have a commented on anything that happened that night on Slack or anywhere else. It now seems - from messages
I have seen - that the ‘victim’ of the bra flashing didn’t actually say anything or report it … it’s all someone said and someone said and eventually some mine in HR or similar heard something.
which would make sense now, me being asked what I remember.

I think that person might be you. I’m puzzled as to why you posted.

Thatsalineallright · 10/12/2025 09:30

Cailleachnamara · 10/12/2025 08:03

"Victims" - of seeing a bra ffs! I can't think of any men who'd actually find this anything but funny, especially in a Christmas party setting where everyone else was also well oiled. If you think any of this is shocking I feel you must have led a very sheltered life. I can't think of a single office party when something similar didn't happen. Usually it was (often married) people caught shagging in cupboards or the loos and even the lift.

As for the alleged groping, the OP heard that 3rd hand as pure rumour and as the alleged "victim" hasn't complained, either it just didn't happen or he considered it a total non event.

Not everything in life needs to be turned into a bloody drama. This company obviously has a culture of wild boozy parties. The attendees have probably witnessed a lot worse and just quite rightly moved on after ribbing the culprit for a while.

You keep making odd comparisons - throwing up in a bin and consensual shagging have absolutely nothing to do with unwanted groping/flashing.

Using the word victim makes it clear that it's unwanted, which I guess is why you're objecting to it.

Your whole basis for minimising this is that the victims are men. I bet if you were in a situation where your female boss/employee/colleague flashed you and grabbed you by the pussy, you wouldn't be happy.

Someone was clearly upset by Jenny's actions, enough to complain. You and OP are happy lying to cover things up. If it's really no big deal, why the need to lie?

Rustymoo · 10/12/2025 09:29

She sexually assaulted this man and needs to held to account. Would the same blasé attitude be taken if the tables were turned and it was man who groped a woman’s breasts or her vulva. I think not.

My husband had to have an uncomfortable chat with a female member of staff following a drunken office party (he was sober) where she thought it would be a good idea to go around feeling men’s arses and their balls including his (he was also her boss). He asked her how she would feel if it was a man behaving in this way touching her breasts etc. Her reply was it’s unacceptable and he should be sacked. You can’t sexually harass/assault women and get away with it.His response was why shouldn’t I sack you then. Men are entitled to the same protection. She had no answer. In the end she was given a formal written warning.

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