Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To refuse to be a witness against colleague??

667 replies

Pukkajones · 09/12/2025 14:28

Christmas party, a few nights ago. At a hotel, as it was timed with a big sales meeting, so everyone staying over, 200 ish people, free bar as well as a formal dinner.
Drinking very much encouraged. Staff ages ranged from early 20s to the senior staff in their 50s. Everyone VERY merry.
One colleague, let’s call her Jenny, got a bit carried away, throwing shapes on the dance floor, too touchy feely with men and women apparently then groped one older male colleagues testicles at which point friends grabbed hold of her and steered her off up stairs to her room.
She escaped. Came back down - paralytic at this point - and flashed her boobs at a senior male colleague! In the side bar area so fewer people around me being one of them. Another colleague and I intervened and friends got her again and put her to bed, this time someone stayed with her.

Now I’m being asked to come and tell what I saw to her line manager. I’m in training for an event at the moment so it’s common knowledge that I wasn’t drinking and was sober.

I really don’t want to. She’s lovely, usually quiet and sensible, the company got her poleaxed and now want to carpet her. I’m not a bloody snitch plus - why can’t the guy she flashed at say what happened. Why do I need to be involved???

I’ve been working away since the party so have no idea what is being said in office other than the OMG, Jenny! What was she doing??? Messages. But trust me, there’s plenty of stories from that night… so she’s in good company.

YABU - snitch on her. A man doing that would be in so much trouble.

YANBU - deny seeing anything. If the company ply everyone with that much booze there’s bound to be uncouth behaviour and they probably have enough witnesses already.

OP posts:
Squirrelmirrel2 · 13/12/2025 09:00

I'm glad you said nothing. I work in a similar culture. Sales conferences are like a drink and drug fest. There will never be a night without a story like this. If you ply enough people with alcohol at least one will get paralytic and when someone is paralytic they lose control of their actions. Our company are stricter now, we have a new sales director who doesn't drink and we were given drinks tokens at our last conference, and they no longer do free booze at lunch times because it used to cause carnage in the office in the afternoons. But our previous sales director was just as bad as everyone else if not worse! I feel sorry for the girl she must be mortified. Sometimes it's the quieter ones that drink more out of nerves and lose control. I've been there when younger.

Cornflakegirl7 · 13/12/2025 08:14

TheCheekyCyanHelper · 13/12/2025 01:25

You are a sick person, if you don't think sexual assault is the same, no matter the sex, you are a sick person.

I am a sick person as well then.
It isn't the same. I am not saying either are pleasant or right, but of the same level they are not. The law reflects thus.

TheCheekyCyanHelper · 13/12/2025 01:25

Betterbeanon · 12/12/2025 08:56

Actually, it isn't. Unpleasant yes and she didn't have the right to do it but men have, by their very physiological build, a power over women and puts women in fear of rape and violence. Men have a penis, which is the criminal weapon in law. Women don't.

Stop making assault, regardless of sex, out to be an equal thing ffs! It isn't.

You are a sick person, if you don't think sexual assault is the same, no matter the sex, you are a sick person.

fatphalange · 12/12/2025 15:23

Betterbeanon · 12/12/2025 12:36

A woman's breasts are mammary glands and not used for penetrative rape or assault.

A man's penis however, is.

I was not being serious.
I’m really surprised by how few people actually read what the OP was actually called into a meeting about. There is no ‘what if a man did it’ outrage to be had here.

WigglywagglyWanda · 12/12/2025 14:31

In the OPs update she said that the person who was flashed hadnt reported it. Her first post about it sounded a lot more serious with bollocks getting felt and boobs flashed

Update said it was just gossip about the bollocks, that it wasnt boobs she saw but s bra.

Totally different scenarios

Thatsalineallright · 12/12/2025 14:26

Bamfram · 12/12/2025 09:32

OP, 35 years ago I was in a similar situation.
I still cringe.
Christmas party and free drink.
One of my buddy colleagues, great guy, dropped his pance for the laugh, while a group of us were chatting. He was a married man with one child, not a big drinker, I was 25 at the time, he was about 32.

I still don't know why I did it but I pulled his pance up🙄🤣. Then other male colleagues dragged him off.

It was seen and his manager was told.
I was called in on monday morning by his manager and HR as they were concerned for me, lest I was traumatised by the incident.
I sat stunned for a minute as I tried to scramble my head together and started mumbling I was confused, couldn't remember, wasn't sure.
They said ok, as long as I was fine.

He got a bollixing, and told anything further like that and he was gone.
He apologised profusely to me, but the slagging he and I both got afterwards on nights out.

I feel very sorry for your colleague and I 100% think you made the right call re her flashing.

Edited

You don't see the massive difference in your situation and OP's?

You were flashed and you decided you were fine and not to take it further.

OP saw someone else be flashed (and heard of someone else being groped) and she decided not to take it further regardless of how upset the person flashed might be.

TheCoralDeer · 12/12/2025 14:13

Betterbeanon · 12/12/2025 08:57

Oh ffs, now you are talking about a minor, which is child abuse. What a stupid comparison

It's surely not 'just' which parts of a body are being discussed & an 'outside' individual (MN) deciding on whether or not SA has taken place - but the overall behaviour of both Jenny and the employers? They have a duty of care for ALL employees, mental plus physical care.
So - I also disagree - eg Jenny is 21, male maybe is 19?? Still disagree with the point? Or, maybe / male is 28 Jenny is 20?

Or even, Jenny is 22, / male is 45. Do you think the same 'guidelines' apply if sexes were reversed??

In any scenario, the said Jenny needs a good talking to about her inappropriate behaviour, ( not just a 'telling off') & the company need to stop encouraging apparent pathetic 'drink all you can' culture. It's gone as far as asking for witnesses, so seems like hopefully the senior employers are taking this seriously, not just dismissing & saying 'oh, FFS'... etc.

40YearOldDad · 12/12/2025 13:33

He was probably asking for it the way he was dressed🙄

The very same people who are justifying her actions by comparing them against a man are the very same ones who call all men scum and should never be trusted around a woman. Sexual assault is sexual assault; you don't get to define it by gender and trying to justify it because a man has a penis and a penis could be considered a criminal weapon, so can hands, and what did she use to grab a handful? Have a little grow up.

As for the actual incident, if no one wants to take it any further, perhaps a handshake and an apology, and no more said about it. Personally, I'd laugh it off but that doesnt make it okay.

Betterbeanon · 12/12/2025 12:36

fatphalange · 12/12/2025 11:08

Yes but what about if a man did it! What if a man lifted his top up and flashed his bra 😂

A woman's breasts are mammary glands and not used for penetrative rape or assault.

A man's penis however, is.

fatphalange · 12/12/2025 11:08

Yes but what about if a man did it! What if a man lifted his top up and flashed his bra 😂

Cailleachnamara · 12/12/2025 10:51

ImGoneUnderground · 12/12/2025 05:14

And was your teenage son sexually assaulted / have his genitals grabbed by a drunken 'Jenny'???

No teens present at the party from what the OP said and the potential groping was sheer hearsay /gossip which the OP did not witness and neither did anyone mentioning it!

So much drama over a bra flash!

Bamfram · 12/12/2025 09:32

OP, 35 years ago I was in a similar situation.
I still cringe.
Christmas party and free drink.
One of my buddy colleagues, great guy, dropped his pance for the laugh, while a group of us were chatting. He was a married man with one child, not a big drinker, I was 25 at the time, he was about 32.

I still don't know why I did it but I pulled his pance up🙄🤣. Then other male colleagues dragged him off.

It was seen and his manager was told.
I was called in on monday morning by his manager and HR as they were concerned for me, lest I was traumatised by the incident.
I sat stunned for a minute as I tried to scramble my head together and started mumbling I was confused, couldn't remember, wasn't sure.
They said ok, as long as I was fine.

He got a bollixing, and told anything further like that and he was gone.
He apologised profusely to me, but the slagging he and I both got afterwards on nights out.

I feel very sorry for your colleague and I 100% think you made the right call re her flashing.

Jjjg · 12/12/2025 09:18

Gloriia · 12/12/2025 09:10

No ones statement is 'pointless to this discussion'. It's a chat forum, folk share their opinions which may be different to yours.

Assault is always wrong.

Gloriia · 12/12/2025 09:10

Jjjg · 12/12/2025 09:01

Assault is still wrong regardless. Your statement is completely pointless to this discussion

No ones statement is 'pointless to this discussion'. It's a chat forum, folk share their opinions which may be different to yours.

Gloriia · 12/12/2025 09:09

TheCheekyCyanHelper · 11/12/2025 18:14

Are you joking? She was sexually touching people without their consent!!! If it was a man doing that you would demand he be fired.

'If it was a man doing it' 🙄. It wasnt!

Men can be intimidating, predatory and threatening. Drunk women are not. Irritating yes, and the may put themselves in dangerous situations with said predatory men but any bra flashing or body grabs should not be judged anywhere as harshly as 'men doing it'.

Jjjg · 12/12/2025 09:01

Betterbeanon · 12/12/2025 08:56

Actually, it isn't. Unpleasant yes and she didn't have the right to do it but men have, by their very physiological build, a power over women and puts women in fear of rape and violence. Men have a penis, which is the criminal weapon in law. Women don't.

Stop making assault, regardless of sex, out to be an equal thing ffs! It isn't.

Assault is still wrong regardless. Your statement is completely pointless to this discussion

Betterbeanon · 12/12/2025 08:57

ImGoneUnderground · 12/12/2025 05:14

And was your teenage son sexually assaulted / have his genitals grabbed by a drunken 'Jenny'???

Oh ffs, now you are talking about a minor, which is child abuse. What a stupid comparison

Betterbeanon · 12/12/2025 08:56

GoodQueenWenceslaus · 09/12/2025 23:59

A woman grabbing a man's testicles is exactly the same as a man groping a woman. It's ridiculous and very hypocritical to claim anything else.i

Actually, it isn't. Unpleasant yes and she didn't have the right to do it but men have, by their very physiological build, a power over women and puts women in fear of rape and violence. Men have a penis, which is the criminal weapon in law. Women don't.

Stop making assault, regardless of sex, out to be an equal thing ffs! It isn't.

ImGoneUnderground · 12/12/2025 05:14

Cailleachnamara · 10/12/2025 02:59

I think you did the right thing as it was hardly the crime of the century. Can't get over all the holier than thous that would relish seeing this woman disciplined or sacked for flashing her bra ffs. Many decades ago ago I was copiously sick into a waste paper bin at my office based Christmas party. I was totally mortified and never got that plastered again. I suspect this woman has learned a similar lesson.

And was your teenage son sexually assaulted / have his genitals grabbed by a drunken 'Jenny'???

ImGoneUnderground · 12/12/2025 04:49

Pukkajones · 09/12/2025 14:28

Christmas party, a few nights ago. At a hotel, as it was timed with a big sales meeting, so everyone staying over, 200 ish people, free bar as well as a formal dinner.
Drinking very much encouraged. Staff ages ranged from early 20s to the senior staff in their 50s. Everyone VERY merry.
One colleague, let’s call her Jenny, got a bit carried away, throwing shapes on the dance floor, too touchy feely with men and women apparently then groped one older male colleagues testicles at which point friends grabbed hold of her and steered her off up stairs to her room.
She escaped. Came back down - paralytic at this point - and flashed her boobs at a senior male colleague! In the side bar area so fewer people around me being one of them. Another colleague and I intervened and friends got her again and put her to bed, this time someone stayed with her.

Now I’m being asked to come and tell what I saw to her line manager. I’m in training for an event at the moment so it’s common knowledge that I wasn’t drinking and was sober.

I really don’t want to. She’s lovely, usually quiet and sensible, the company got her poleaxed and now want to carpet her. I’m not a bloody snitch plus - why can’t the guy she flashed at say what happened. Why do I need to be involved???

I’ve been working away since the party so have no idea what is being said in office other than the OMG, Jenny! What was she doing??? Messages. But trust me, there’s plenty of stories from that night… so she’s in good company.

YABU - snitch on her. A man doing that would be in so much trouble.

YANBU - deny seeing anything. If the company ply everyone with that much booze there’s bound to be uncouth behaviour and they probably have enough witnesses already.

Wow. Sounds like a Carry On 1960s office 'do'. (not meant to be funny at all).

Who was encouraging the drinking? Did anyone force her to drink? You say that the the 'company 'encouraged her to got her poleaxed / excessive drinking of alcohol??' How did that happen - anyone one person in particular? Any proof? (Not doubting you, but proof / names may be needed), and 'No Thanks' is an acceptable reply by Jenny.

No one has to 'drink' even if encouraged to.

You don't have to say or 'deny' anything, you are not on trial, are you in a Union??

Maybe just say what you saw, including the bit about the 'company' encouraging excessive drinking? - but this poor stupid young girl must be accountable for her actions - a man would be - not just the 'flashing', but certainly the S groping - SA - that's so too far - imagine if it was your son, Dad, DH or BF who was being 'groped' - Jenny went too far, and must own up to her actions, & apologise, which would probably be better than trying to deny it. Please update??
(PS Crap employers - please name & shame - as they appear to encourage such 'wild / weird' behaviour'. has anyone called them out on this? I would be writing all this down for any unfortunate future reference). Was she only one who behaved like this at the happy 'Christmas Party? (If it was my son that she SA'd poor Jenny would be drinking out of a bliddy straw and wearing sunglasses, whatever her excuse was). Plus a lawsuit pending for SA against 'poor Jenny' & her awful employers.

KilkennyCats · 11/12/2025 18:24

It’s a bit ironic, really; all the posters insisting op should say nothing because “it’s nothing, just a bit of silliness”.
If it’s nothing, why try so hard to prevent it coming to the ears of HR?
They’re sure to agree it’s nothing, right?

TheCheekyCyanHelper · 11/12/2025 18:19

Pukkajones · 09/12/2025 16:10

Update… just got off a video call with the manager ( who incidentally I once had to help to bed many years ago after a big industry event, and who was so ill the next day missed their flight and had to get a later one… but I digress)
where I confirmed that I saw nothing untoward as I arrived into the area but did help escort Drunken colleague to their room as they were clearly not fit to be trying to break back into the ballroom …
that is all. Thanks for the advice.

Disgusting. She committed sexual assault, and you helped hide her crime. I bet if some guy dies that to you next Christmas party, you will be in tears and suddenly it will matter.

TheCheekyCyanHelper · 11/12/2025 18:14

Gloriia · 11/12/2025 17:48

Absolute overreaction but then we have plods arresting folk for tweets so maybe not surprising.
Surely a verbal warning would sufficed in this case unless there's a massive back story we haven't been told about.

Are you joking? She was sexually touching people without their consent!!! If it was a man doing that you would demand he be fired.

TheCheekyCyanHelper · 11/12/2025 18:12

Pukkajones · 09/12/2025 14:49

Lifted her top up and flashed her bra basically. That’s the only thing I witnessed. The dance floor colleague apparently has not said anything, it’s the one she flashed that’s complained.

That doesn't matter, she sexually harassed two people!!!

bittertwisted · 11/12/2025 18:11

Gloriia · 11/12/2025 17:48

Absolute overreaction but then we have plods arresting folk for tweets so maybe not surprising.
Surely a verbal warning would sufficed in this case unless there's a massive back story we haven't been told about.

I agree
but then I started work in tech in the 90s. 95% male and complete acceptance of totally unacceptable behaviour. It was expected that us girls would just laugh it off, be one of the lads and not be ‘over sensitive’. My perception is probably very skewed, I subconsciously still feel a lot of things people complain about are overreacting. Not saying that is right, just the age I worked in

Swipe left for the next trending thread