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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To refuse to be a witness against colleague??

667 replies

Pukkajones · 09/12/2025 14:28

Christmas party, a few nights ago. At a hotel, as it was timed with a big sales meeting, so everyone staying over, 200 ish people, free bar as well as a formal dinner.
Drinking very much encouraged. Staff ages ranged from early 20s to the senior staff in their 50s. Everyone VERY merry.
One colleague, let’s call her Jenny, got a bit carried away, throwing shapes on the dance floor, too touchy feely with men and women apparently then groped one older male colleagues testicles at which point friends grabbed hold of her and steered her off up stairs to her room.
She escaped. Came back down - paralytic at this point - and flashed her boobs at a senior male colleague! In the side bar area so fewer people around me being one of them. Another colleague and I intervened and friends got her again and put her to bed, this time someone stayed with her.

Now I’m being asked to come and tell what I saw to her line manager. I’m in training for an event at the moment so it’s common knowledge that I wasn’t drinking and was sober.

I really don’t want to. She’s lovely, usually quiet and sensible, the company got her poleaxed and now want to carpet her. I’m not a bloody snitch plus - why can’t the guy she flashed at say what happened. Why do I need to be involved???

I’ve been working away since the party so have no idea what is being said in office other than the OMG, Jenny! What was she doing??? Messages. But trust me, there’s plenty of stories from that night… so she’s in good company.

YABU - snitch on her. A man doing that would be in so much trouble.

YANBU - deny seeing anything. If the company ply everyone with that much booze there’s bound to be uncouth behaviour and they probably have enough witnesses already.

OP posts:
Rustymoo · 09/12/2025 16:39

Wolfpa · 09/12/2025 14:31

How would you feel if the genders were reversed?

Exactly. Prime example of double standards.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 09/12/2025 16:39

Thatsalineallright · 09/12/2025 16:33

So you lied and helped cover up sexual assault. If I were in your shoes I would be incredibly ashamed of myself. I'm guessing you're the type to sleep soundly though.

She didn't see the groping incident, so would have been lying if she said she had. Hearsay is not evidence.

I don't think that the sight of a bit of Marks and Spencer's lace and midriff is comparable to a hypothetical erect penis.

She has confirmed that the employee was very drunk and needed to be helped out, however. Which she did see and was involved in.

Gloriia · 09/12/2025 16:39

Apricotafternoon · 09/12/2025 16:17

If it was a man doing that he'd be sacked.

And also if a woman did that to my DH for example I'd be fuming.

She shouldn't be excused as just being drunk. I'm sure we've all been incredibly drunk before and managed not to sexually assault someone or expose ourselves.

It wasn't a man. Men flashing cocks are predatory pervs, women flashing bras are not.

I feel this will need to be repeated everything someone shrieks 'if it was a man!'

Brefugee · 09/12/2025 16:38

as long as you're ok with the male colleagues flashing their penises at women with no sanction, have at it.

But you are hugely unreasonable not to give a factual statement about what happened.

Fizzy208 · 09/12/2025 16:37

Everyone who is saying 'What if the genders were reversed'. The genders aren't reversed so it doesn't matter, men and woman are held to different standards and the dynamic is completely different when it comes from a young female member of staff, doesn't mean it's right but both can be true.

How does the older male college feel?
How was everyone else behaving? Was everyone else drunk?
You're only being pulled into meetings about it because they knew you were sober?

If you have to attend a meeting about it, I would keep it brief and factual. Annoying for you because you haven't done anything wrong.

Sterlingrose · 09/12/2025 16:35

She sexually assaulted someone and then flashed someone else. You really think it's snitching to tell the truth? In which case i hope nobody ever does it to you. The company didn't get her drunk, she did that herself. It's pathetic to be unable to handle your drink to that extent.

When i was sexually harassed at work, some weak minded people like you also stood by and wouldn't say what they'd witnessed. That led to him keeping his job with barely any consequences, while i got to develop mental health problems as a result.

Fruitbatdancer · 09/12/2025 16:34

Pukkajones · 09/12/2025 16:16

Mortified, I hear is an understatement. Though I also hear HR have an actually problem to deal with as there was some kind of punch up in the early hours… I was long in bed by then.

Remind me of a work do about 10 years ago, I was pregnant so not drinking. And the head of finance. Called the COO a gNGEr cnt and punched him. Lights out. Goodnight Vienna. As the ONLY sober person in the only one HR would take an account from. Wild times. Both were fired but the COO for incompetence rather than fighting!

TonTonMacoute · 09/12/2025 16:34

She didn't just get a bit carried away, she got paralytically drunk and sexually assaulted people.

I once worked at an office where one woman regularly and consistently sexually harassed male colleagues. Constant boasting of sexual adventures, touching and groping all totally unwelcome and uninvited.

Even men deserve to work in an environment where they don't have to put up with this unwanted sexual 'banter', it's assumed that because they are men they probably don't mind it, and might even enjoy it, and too bad for them if they hate it and feel dirty and uncomfortable.

Go to the meeting and just answer the questions they ask, and let them decide what measures they are going to take.

Thatsalineallright · 09/12/2025 16:33

Pukkajones · 09/12/2025 16:10

Update… just got off a video call with the manager ( who incidentally I once had to help to bed many years ago after a big industry event, and who was so ill the next day missed their flight and had to get a later one… but I digress)
where I confirmed that I saw nothing untoward as I arrived into the area but did help escort Drunken colleague to their room as they were clearly not fit to be trying to break back into the ballroom …
that is all. Thanks for the advice.

So you lied and helped cover up sexual assault. If I were in your shoes I would be incredibly ashamed of myself. I'm guessing you're the type to sleep soundly though.

JSMill · 09/12/2025 16:33

You have to tell the truth and let others decide what happens. What if you stay quiet and she does something like that next year? There will be no record that this is a pattern of behaviour. As pp have said, no one poured the drinks down her. She needs to take responsibility for her own actions.

CatMum27 · 09/12/2025 16:32

Wolfpa · 09/12/2025 14:31

How would you feel if the genders were reversed?

THIS. I had this exact situation with a colleague - groped two male members of staff and management attempted to brush it away. As a woman who has suffered assault in the past this made me feel very unsafe. Colleagues and I reported her and she had a warning. Gone in six months for doing the same thing again.

Sexual assault is assault and shouldn’t be minimised. You only need to state the facts, the judgement is for others.

W0tnow · 09/12/2025 16:32

JudgeJ · 09/12/2025 16:20

MN hypocrisy at its best! If a man did this the reaction would have been very different, you wouldn't expect a woman to 'get over it'.

Err, yes? I’ve already said that.

Bambamhoohoo · 09/12/2025 16:32

LoveItaly · 09/12/2025 16:26

The OP had better hope that no one witnessed her observing her colleague’s behaviour. Surely lying about this incident would be a sackable offence?

Sounds like you’d really love that

MrsVBS · 09/12/2025 16:32

How would you feel if the male colleague had grabbed her breasts or crotch and exposed himself? If she did what you said and you witnessed it and have been asked to give your side that’s what you should do, just like you would if it had been the other way around.

Greyrock2828 · 09/12/2025 16:32

Well done OP @Pukkajones mumsnetters tend to be "whiter than white" on here. Everyone in my experience has got a bit too drunk at a works party and she clearly was totally smashed. We had it happen at one works party where they gave too many free drinks and hired a comedian who egged everyone on. So many fights, people going home with each other, someone picked up the MD, people swinging from the beams it was wild. And they changed the Christmas party set up after so it never happened again. I've seen worse behaviour on works trips. Pretty sure your colleague will be mortified and I'm sure there was no malice in her actions. Everyone makes mistakes.

Pedallleur · 09/12/2025 16:31

Apricotafternoon · 09/12/2025 16:17

If it was a man doing that he'd be sacked.

And also if a woman did that to my DH for example I'd be fuming.

She shouldn't be excused as just being drunk. I'm sure we've all been incredibly drunk before and managed not to sexually assault someone or expose ourselves.

This. She clearly should have controlled her intake but stable door/horse. If it had been a drunken man OP who groped you and/or bared all what would you say/want to happen?

Pukkajones · 09/12/2025 16:30

LoveItaly · 09/12/2025 16:26

The OP had better hope that no one witnessed her observing her colleague’s behaviour. Surely lying about this incident would be a sackable offence?

Er, okay. Given how drunk everyone was I think I’ll be ok.

OP posts:
Pukkajones · 09/12/2025 16:29

InveterateWineDrinker · 09/12/2025 16:27

OP, I really hope that you never find yourself in a position where you are relying on the kindness and decency of strangers for anything more than telling you the time.

Drama llama.

OP posts:
NoisyViewer · 09/12/2025 16:28

Pukkajones · 09/12/2025 14:28

Christmas party, a few nights ago. At a hotel, as it was timed with a big sales meeting, so everyone staying over, 200 ish people, free bar as well as a formal dinner.
Drinking very much encouraged. Staff ages ranged from early 20s to the senior staff in their 50s. Everyone VERY merry.
One colleague, let’s call her Jenny, got a bit carried away, throwing shapes on the dance floor, too touchy feely with men and women apparently then groped one older male colleagues testicles at which point friends grabbed hold of her and steered her off up stairs to her room.
She escaped. Came back down - paralytic at this point - and flashed her boobs at a senior male colleague! In the side bar area so fewer people around me being one of them. Another colleague and I intervened and friends got her again and put her to bed, this time someone stayed with her.

Now I’m being asked to come and tell what I saw to her line manager. I’m in training for an event at the moment so it’s common knowledge that I wasn’t drinking and was sober.

I really don’t want to. She’s lovely, usually quiet and sensible, the company got her poleaxed and now want to carpet her. I’m not a bloody snitch plus - why can’t the guy she flashed at say what happened. Why do I need to be involved???

I’ve been working away since the party so have no idea what is being said in office other than the OMG, Jenny! What was she doing??? Messages. But trust me, there’s plenty of stories from that night… so she’s in good company.

YABU - snitch on her. A man doing that would be in so much trouble.

YANBU - deny seeing anything. If the company ply everyone with that much booze there’s bound to be uncouth behaviour and they probably have enough witnesses already.

I completely get why you’re apprehensive. I would hate to get someone I like in trouble but what she did was not ok. If were to hold men to a standard the same must be done for women. If a male colleague you vaguely like brushed their hand against a woman’s crotch I think you’d have no issue in reporting what you’ve seen.

InveterateWineDrinker · 09/12/2025 16:27

Pukkajones · 09/12/2025 16:19

Yup. I have no time for this shite. Also, now I think about it perhaps I did finally crack and have a couple of drinks making my memory fuzzy and affecting my observation skills on the night.

OP, I really hope that you never find yourself in a position where you are relying on the kindness and decency of strangers for anything more than telling you the time.

Natsku · 09/12/2025 16:26

If you had witnessed the groping then I definitely think you should have told them the facts, but bra flashing is not so serious, nothing like a man flashing his penis.

Someone played our boss's head like a bongo at one party and nothing happened to him - reckon our boss felt it was his own fault for giving us so much booze.

LoveItaly · 09/12/2025 16:26

CherrieTomaties · 09/12/2025 16:21

Why do I need to be involved???

Fucking grow up.

You know what you witnessed. A sexual assault.

Do the decent thing and tell management what you witnessed.

If a court of law called you as a witness would you willingly turn a blind eye?

The OP had better hope that no one witnessed her observing her colleague’s behaviour. Surely lying about this incident would be a sackable offence?

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 09/12/2025 16:26

I don't think this kind of behaviour is acceptable from a man or from a woman. Being drunk is no excuse, and wouldn't be in a court of law.

I don't understand why you lied. Either you think what she did wasn't very bad...in which case, why not just tell it as it is? Or you think it was really bad, so why would you try to cover it up?

If a male worker grabbed a woman's private parts and exposed his own private parts at an office party, he would quite rightly be held accountable for this. I don't see why women shouldn't be held to the same standard.

If people aren't able to control themselves when they're drunk, then they should avoid drinking.

Handbagcuriosity · 09/12/2025 16:25

I don’t like the way you describe your HR having an actual problem because there was a punch up as if this isn’t a problem at all.

If the role was reversed or if it was your partner who was groped would you feel the same? Because she’s a woman and is generally nice is the bar for acceptable behaviour lower than it would be for a man grabbing his female colleagues arse?

Your attitude is terrible, saying you haven’t got time for it? Now you’ve lied it might get still get you in hot water if others say they saw her groping someone and flashing her boobs and they all say go ask Pukkajones, they witnessed everything and were much closer to everything!

What’s done is done but I feel sorry for your male colleague who was groped and whose colleague is so dismissive of it

Pukkajones · 09/12/2025 16:25

Coconutter24 · 09/12/2025 16:22

Would you be so ignorant if the usually quiet girl had her crotch groped or was upset a male had flashed her? You’d also let that slide?

It wasn’t a man though- yes I think there is a difference.
Also, I don’t consider flashing a bra to be the crime of the century. If a bloke had turned round a mooned his boxers I wouldn’t consider that anything other than a bit stupid either. As it goes.

OP posts:
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