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AIBU?

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Original poster

To refuse to be a witness against colleague??

667 replies

Pukkajones · 09/12/2025 14:28

Christmas party, a few nights ago. At a hotel, as it was timed with a big sales meeting, so everyone staying over, 200 ish people, free bar as well as a formal dinner.
Drinking very much encouraged. Staff ages ranged from early 20s to the senior staff in their 50s. Everyone VERY merry.
One colleague, let’s call her Jenny, got a bit carried away, throwing shapes on the dance floor, too touchy feely with men and women apparently then groped one older male colleagues testicles at which point friends grabbed hold of her and steered her off up stairs to her room.
She escaped. Came back down - paralytic at this point - and flashed her boobs at a senior male colleague! In the side bar area so fewer people around me being one of them. Another colleague and I intervened and friends got her again and put her to bed, this time someone stayed with her.

Now I’m being asked to come and tell what I saw to her line manager. I’m in training for an event at the moment so it’s common knowledge that I wasn’t drinking and was sober.

I really don’t want to. She’s lovely, usually quiet and sensible, the company got her poleaxed and now want to carpet her. I’m not a bloody snitch plus - why can’t the guy she flashed at say what happened. Why do I need to be involved???

I’ve been working away since the party so have no idea what is being said in office other than the OMG, Jenny! What was she doing??? Messages. But trust me, there’s plenty of stories from that night… so she’s in good company.

YABU - snitch on her. A man doing that would be in so much trouble.

YANBU - deny seeing anything. If the company ply everyone with that much booze there’s bound to be uncouth behaviour and they probably have enough witnesses already.

OP posts:
User5306921 · 09/12/2025 17:02

Eugh.....in a professional environment? I cannot ever imagine being a manager and encouraging my staff to drink

Then you have never worked in a company that has free bars. That is precisely what happens. I worked somewhere where people would order a tray of shots or bottles of champagne everytime they went to the bar. There was no limit.

It isn't here or there anyway. People are still responsible for their own behaviour.

Many years ago, I worked in a corporate company and as above, people were very very drunk. A young male employee was dancing with an older female manager. They were both very very drunk. People said the woman had been very flirty with a few of the younger guys and one of them started to 'fondle' her on the dance floor. The following Monday morning, he was given a warning for his behaviour.

Just say what you saw OP, not what you heard, or thought, just what you saw.

godmum56 · 09/12/2025 17:02

AnonKat · 09/12/2025 14:48

Its amazing that in 15 years of free bars ive never flashed or assaulted anyone. Just because booze is offered doesnt mean you drink it. And if you can't handle your drink without being a sex pest, then dont drink.

You should state the facts, doesnt matter if she is nice. She crossed a line.

its 40 years for me and I completely agree with you.

DBD1975 · 09/12/2025 16:57

Times like this I regret working in the NHS.
Our Christmas party will be a stale mince pie, a luke warm cup of tea and everyone will have vacated the building by 5 (pm not am)!! 🤣

Devuelta81 · 09/12/2025 16:57

Ohnobackagain · 09/12/2025 15:44

@Pukkajones by saying factually what you saw you may be corroborating her story. The person she flashed might have exaggerated for all you know. As you say, with regard to the assault on the other person, you’ve heard a rumour but in this case you’ve seen her lift her top and show her bra.

This is true. I personally agree with some PPs that flashing your bra is not the same as flashing your boobs - it could (depending on the bra) be the same coverage as a bikini. Still inappropriate but not the same level IMO (unless we think everyone on the beach is flashing?) The groping is much more serious, but that's outside your scope as a witness.

YourWildAmberSloth · 09/12/2025 16:55

pastaandpesto · 09/12/2025 14:57

No that's not what I said. In fact it's the opposite of what I said.

I am making the point that the company may very well be vicariously liable for the fact that two employees have been sexually harassed in the workplace. Google it. They may know this, and be keen to throw the blame entirely on Jenny.

That is separate to the fact that Jenny should be subject to the company's sexual harassment procedure.

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The company did not force her to drink and assault someone. She is 100% responsible for her actions.

Gloriia · 09/12/2025 16:55

Cyclebabble · 09/12/2025 16:50

And if a woman had been grabbed by her crotch she would "get over it" as well?

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No, because men assaulting women is completely different. Men are threatening, women are not.

I'd be more concerned about the welfare of the woman, I bet she's mortified that she got so drunk.

ProblemStarbuckshabit · 09/12/2025 16:55

Rustymoo · 09/12/2025 16:39

Exactly. Prime example of double standards.

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The woman showed her bra. Surely this is more comparible to a man showing everyone his vest.
Op didn’t see more than this.
If she actually saw her colleague grope someone she should have reported that because it is an offence, but public displays of underwear are not.

ChloeMorningstar · 09/12/2025 16:54

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Really?

Would you say that about a woman being assaulted? No, you wouldn't and its not right the other way round.

Doesnt matter how 'nice' she is normally, her actions were out of order.

Bambamhoohoo · 09/12/2025 16:51

Fruitbatdancer · 09/12/2025 16:34

Remind me of a work do about 10 years ago, I was pregnant so not drinking. And the head of finance. Called the COO a gNGEr cnt and punched him. Lights out. Goodnight Vienna. As the ONLY sober person in the only one HR would take an account from. Wild times. Both were fired but the COO for incompetence rather than fighting!

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😱😱😱😱

mylittledoggie · 09/12/2025 16:51

Seeing a woman’s bra is totally not the same thing as a man flashing his dick at you!!!! Women don’t rape men with their bras and bras actual cover up breasts, which are not even genitalia. I would just say I didn’t see anything.

Original poster
Pukkajones · 09/12/2025 16:51

ThatCleverCoralCrow · 09/12/2025 16:48

You didn't see anything right? Happened to look away and only saw the aftermath of her being led away. I doubt she was doing it for sexual gratification somehow, the embarrasment is probably punishment enough.

Indeed. It was a ‘Oh Pukka helped take drunkard to her room, maybe she saw something ‘ but she didn’t as it happens so that’ all… was she drunk? Yes she was. And so was everyone else.

OP posts:
Cyclebabble · 09/12/2025 16:50

This reply has been deleted

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And if a woman had been grabbed by her crotch she would "get over it" as well?

SorcererGaheris · 09/12/2025 16:49

Wishitsnows · 09/12/2025 14:58

I wouldn’t do anything or give a statement. However I would if the sexes were reversed.

@Wishitsnows

Aren't you more or less saying that you think it's okay/acceptable for males to be sexually assaulted and harassed? Why on earth do you feel that way?

user1473878824 · 09/12/2025 16:49

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Wowwwwww

CallItLoneliness · 09/12/2025 16:48

Bobiverse · 09/12/2025 15:33

Either we say it is unacceptable to flash someone, or it isn’t. You don’t get to have double standards.

If a man flashed me at a workplace event, I’d be furious and making complaints. If a woman flashes a man, it is the exact same.

The double standards on mumsnet are rife though.

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Oh don't be ridiculous. Ignoring the social context in which we live, where one of the leading causes of death for women is men, but the reverse is not true, is specious and misogynist. None of that means that the flashee doesn't have every right to make a complaint, nor that Jenny shouldn't be held responsible, but there is a social double standard that affects how threatening the flashing behaviour was, however much I wish it were otherwise.

ThatCleverCoralCrow · 09/12/2025 16:48

You didn't see anything right? Happened to look away and only saw the aftermath of her being led away. I doubt she was doing it for sexual gratification somehow, the embarrasment is probably punishment enough.

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 09/12/2025 16:46

Pukkajones · 09/12/2025 16:43

People love a bit of drama don’t they?? As I said I saw ( or did I?) some silly but harmless behaviour. So I won’t be joining any witch hunts. Nor have a commented on anything that happened that night on Slack or anywhere else. It now seems - from messages
I have seen - that the ‘victim’ of the bra flashing didn’t actually say anything or report it … it’s all someone said and someone said and eventually some mine in HR or similar heard something.
which would make sense now, me being asked what I remember.

If you think it was silly but harmless behaviour, why not just say this to your employer. Why lie?

Ginagogo · 09/12/2025 16:44

Wolfpa · 09/12/2025 14:31

How would you feel if the genders were reversed?

Well exactly. How gross

Original poster
Pukkajones · 09/12/2025 16:43

People love a bit of drama don’t they?? As I said I saw ( or did I?) some silly but harmless behaviour. So I won’t be joining any witch hunts. Nor have a commented on anything that happened that night on Slack or anywhere else. It now seems - from messages
I have seen - that the ‘victim’ of the bra flashing didn’t actually say anything or report it … it’s all someone said and someone said and eventually some mine in HR or similar heard something.
which would make sense now, me being asked what I remember.

OP posts:
Itsnearlymybirthday · 09/12/2025 16:43

No words, how can you dismiss it and be so pathetic as to say ‘I can’t be bothered with this shite’.

Thatsalineallright · 09/12/2025 16:43

TonTonMacoute · 09/12/2025 16:34

She didn't just get a bit carried away, she got paralytically drunk and sexually assaulted people.

I once worked at an office where one woman regularly and consistently sexually harassed male colleagues. Constant boasting of sexual adventures, touching and groping all totally unwelcome and uninvited.

Even men deserve to work in an environment where they don't have to put up with this unwanted sexual 'banter', it's assumed that because they are men they probably don't mind it, and might even enjoy it, and too bad for them if they hate it and feel dirty and uncomfortable.

Go to the meeting and just answer the questions they ask, and let them decide what measures they are going to take.

OP has had the meeting and point blank lied. I feel so sorry for the male colleague. I just hope there's someone else who can act as a witness, otherwise there's a risk that it's all turned against him and he's blamed for making false accusations. And if there's ever any other incident of sexual assault, the victim will probably be very hesitant to speak up.

Christ, the world is a depressing enough place already and yet some people seem set on making it worse.

Viviennemary · 09/12/2025 16:42

Its absolutely appalling behaviour from this colleague. She has sexually assaulted another person. Yes you should say say what you saw. She should be sacked.

W0tnow · 09/12/2025 16:42

Really, the closest comparison would be a man flashing his bare chest.

Gloriia · 09/12/2025 16:41

Brefugee · 09/12/2025 16:38

as long as you're ok with the male colleagues flashing their penises at women with no sanction, have at it.

But you are hugely unreasonable not to give a factual statement about what happened.

Males flashing penises are predators pervs. Women flashing bras are not.

Glad you brushed the jobsworths investigation aside op. Maybe have a quiet word with the young women and suggest she calms it on works dos although presumably she knows that now.

REP22 · 09/12/2025 16:40

If your managers have asked for an account from you @Pukkajones, then not complying with their request may cause them to question your judgement. Saying "I didn't see anything" when you were clearly present and saw something would make them wonder why you were being dishonest on that score and saying that you DID see something but weren't prepared to comply with their request might prompt questions on your motivation and/or judgement.

It's perfectly possible to provide a basic statement of fact as to what you, yourself actually witnessed without veering into "snitch" territory. You could also caveat your account of Jenny's behaviour by simple statements such as "many other colleagues behaved badly that night; it wasn't just Jenny." and "Colleagues generally were being encouraged to drink to excess; not just Jenny. I'm hopeful that this will be a learning experience for future corporate events."

It may be that, as you've alluded to in other posts, other things (in which Jenny may or may not have been involved) took place less obviously at the hotel, which the company is now having to account/compensate for, and are looking for any witness statements. Your account may be, in fact, what gets Jenny off the hook. If something untoward DID take place off the dancefloor and others are blaming Jenny because of the state she was in, it may be that your evidence exonerates Jenny by proving that she was too p~ssed to have been involved, or that it transpired at the time you and other colleagues were getting her back to her room.

Sorry you're having to deal with this. But I don't think you have done the right thing by not offering the full account of what you witnessed.