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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To refuse to be a witness against colleague??

667 replies

Pukkajones · 09/12/2025 14:28

Christmas party, a few nights ago. At a hotel, as it was timed with a big sales meeting, so everyone staying over, 200 ish people, free bar as well as a formal dinner.
Drinking very much encouraged. Staff ages ranged from early 20s to the senior staff in their 50s. Everyone VERY merry.
One colleague, let’s call her Jenny, got a bit carried away, throwing shapes on the dance floor, too touchy feely with men and women apparently then groped one older male colleagues testicles at which point friends grabbed hold of her and steered her off up stairs to her room.
She escaped. Came back down - paralytic at this point - and flashed her boobs at a senior male colleague! In the side bar area so fewer people around me being one of them. Another colleague and I intervened and friends got her again and put her to bed, this time someone stayed with her.

Now I’m being asked to come and tell what I saw to her line manager. I’m in training for an event at the moment so it’s common knowledge that I wasn’t drinking and was sober.

I really don’t want to. She’s lovely, usually quiet and sensible, the company got her poleaxed and now want to carpet her. I’m not a bloody snitch plus - why can’t the guy she flashed at say what happened. Why do I need to be involved???

I’ve been working away since the party so have no idea what is being said in office other than the OMG, Jenny! What was she doing??? Messages. But trust me, there’s plenty of stories from that night… so she’s in good company.

YABU - snitch on her. A man doing that would be in so much trouble.

YANBU - deny seeing anything. If the company ply everyone with that much booze there’s bound to be uncouth behaviour and they probably have enough witnesses already.

OP posts:
Thatsalineallright · 09/12/2025 20:37

fatphalange · 09/12/2025 20:25

Call it bullshit all you like but it doesn’t change the fact that not all abuse is ‘equal’. The level of threat and danger, physical and mental harm and potential for lasting trauma posed by men against women isn’t the same as the same as those posed by women against men. Men are more violent and powerful because biology and that’s without all the toxic masculinity shit added in. It’s just the way it is. It serves no one to pretend otherwise.

So what if all abuse isn't equal, that doesn't make any of it acceptable. All abuse should be called out.

The OP is clearly happy to cover it up, however.

pastaandpesto · 09/12/2025 20:30

I'm really shocked at the amount of minimising on this thread about the impact of female-on-male sexual harassment/assault.

The physical difference between a man and a woman is one element of the power dynamic between a victim and perpetrator. In scenarios that involve a man physically threatening or overpowering a woman, it's clearly a hugely bloody important one, and one that will significantly impact the experience of the victim in terms of their ability to remove themselves from a situation, their risk of physical harm, and their level of fear and distress.

But in a workplace setting the physical power imbalance is much less relevant. A man could easily be in a relatively vulnerable position due to seniority, social networks, (invisible) disability, history of CSA or domestic violence etc etc.

It is absolutely outrageous to police the degree of distress and upset that a man feel relative to a woman in the context of workplace harassment, which is what is being discussed here.

fatphalange · 09/12/2025 20:25

InveterateWineDrinker · 09/12/2025 20:02

Bullshit. It's about victims being victims and - in the context of this thread - perfectly capable, cognitive people looking the other way and (for OP) revelling in it.

Call it bullshit all you like but it doesn’t change the fact that not all abuse is ‘equal’. The level of threat and danger, physical and mental harm and potential for lasting trauma posed by men against women isn’t the same as the same as those posed by women against men. Men are more violent and powerful because biology and that’s without all the toxic masculinity shit added in. It’s just the way it is. It serves no one to pretend otherwise.

WeNeedToTalkAboutIT · 09/12/2025 20:23

Congratulations on lying <heavy sarcasm>.

I hope you're recognised from your posts and somebody lets your company know about this thread...

briq · 09/12/2025 20:22

Glad I'm not employed at a place where you're apparently nearly required to drink to excess. You should've told the truth, but at least I hope the out-of-control colleague has learned her lesson and won't overindulge at the next Christmas party.

TrippingOverMyAssets · 09/12/2025 20:20

Gloriia · 09/12/2025 20:19

I don't think anyone has said 'if a man did it'..

No but people have played it down simply because it WASNT a man who did it. That’s the whole point.

MrsHamlet · 09/12/2025 20:19

TrippingOverMyAssets · 09/12/2025 20:18

So is grabbing men by the testicles. Actually no, that’s assault.

Edited

I'm aware of that. I think it's appalling that people are playing this down.

MindaBelinda · 09/12/2025 20:19

pastaandpesto · 09/12/2025 14:38

Imagine you are male, asking if it would be ok to lie about witnessing a male colleague assault a female co-worker, with the justification that he is a good bloke and it's wasn't his fault anyway because the company let him drink too much.

Exactly this. You can’t say they plied her with alcohol. You were there and you were sober. Just because there is free alcohol doesn’t mean she has to get blind drunk and grope people. Men would be rightfully disciplined for that so why shouldn’t your friend.

if she just flashed her boobs then fair enough it’s probably no harm done although still inappropriate but she actually groped someone. That’s not ok.

Gloriia · 09/12/2025 20:19

TrippingOverMyAssets · 09/12/2025 20:17

Strange thing double standards. If a man had been getting drunk and sexually assaulting colleagues nobody would be playing it down or saying they didn’t want to get involved. But if a woman does it…Meh, it’s just Jenny innit?

I don't think anyone has said 'if a man did it'..

TrippingOverMyAssets · 09/12/2025 20:18

MrsHamlet · 09/12/2025 20:12

Flashing is sexual harassment.

So is grabbing men by the testicles. Actually no, that’s assault.

TrippingOverMyAssets · 09/12/2025 20:17

Strange thing double standards. If a man had been getting drunk and sexually assaulting colleagues nobody would be playing it down or saying they didn’t want to get involved. But if a woman does it…Meh, it’s just Jenny innit?

99bottlesofkombucha · 09/12/2025 20:15

pastaandpesto · 09/12/2025 14:47

It's worth bearing in mind that the context to this is that legally a work party is generally considered an extension of the workplace. So legal protection against workplace sexual harassment apply. By facilitating/encouraging employees to get utterly shitfaced the company has left themselves very vulnerable and they could be looking to avoid being held to account by focusing the blame on an individual.

Which is to say Jenny shouldn't also be held accountable for her actions.

I think this, I’d list to myself everyone there was some rumour or ott behaviour for the night, go in and say I understand you’re concerned about behaviour at the event due to the free bar and the companies very pro drinking culture? I believe the people you want to know about are Bob, Sandra, Sarah, James, Colin, dinesh, Mak, Adrian… and list about 20 names including colleague and see their faces (I wouldn’t say anything specific about them) then I probably would tell them what I saw about this woman and say I hope the company is taking its responsibility here seriously, this could have been a complete blow up and in the news with the number of crazy drunk people and shenanigans. She was definitely at fault but so are management and legally that’s very clear.

LizzieW1969 · 09/12/2025 20:14

Lidre · 09/12/2025 20:02

I think it needs to be unacceptable, but it is different because of the different power dynamic, as PP says.

I agree that male on female is more serious because of the power dynamic. But a woman grabbing a man’s testicles isn’t nothing, I know that my DH would be utterly horrified it it happened to him.

But it isn't really relevant to the thread as the OP didn't see it so she didn't lie about that incident.

I don't think she should have lied about what she did see, but I don't see her friend exposing her bra as that big a deal really. Though she was very foolish to get that drunk.

MrsHamlet · 09/12/2025 20:12

Pukkajones · 09/12/2025 14:49

Lifted her top up and flashed her bra basically. That’s the only thing I witnessed. The dance floor colleague apparently has not said anything, it’s the one she flashed that’s complained.

Flashing is sexual harassment.

Iamtired123 · 09/12/2025 20:10

pastaandpesto · 09/12/2025 14:38

Imagine you are male, asking if it would be ok to lie about witnessing a male colleague assault a female co-worker, with the justification that he is a good bloke and it's wasn't his fault anyway because the company let him drink too much.

Well this isn't about a man though is it ?

Thatsalineallright · 09/12/2025 20:09

InveterateWineDrinker · 09/12/2025 20:02

Bullshit. It's about victims being victims and - in the context of this thread - perfectly capable, cognitive people looking the other way and (for OP) revelling in it.

Yes, she comes across as positively gleeful.

fifthworldwar · 09/12/2025 20:08

Bobiverse · 09/12/2025 15:33

Either we say it is unacceptable to flash someone, or it isn’t. You don’t get to have double standards.

If a man flashed me at a workplace event, I’d be furious and making complaints. If a woman flashes a man, it is the exact same.

The double standards on mumsnet are rife though.

What is so awful about a bra?

ilovesooty · 09/12/2025 20:08

safetyfreak · 09/12/2025 20:03

Well, the poll is 50-50. So, many people here agree with OP are being quiet, in fear of being attacked on this thread.

You have no way of knowing that.

ETA plenty of posters here have been quite vocal in agreeing with the OP that her lies are acceptable.

safetyfreak · 09/12/2025 20:03

Well, the poll is 50-50. So, many people here agree with OP are being quiet, in fear of being attacked on this thread.

Lidre · 09/12/2025 20:02

Climbingrosexx · 09/12/2025 20:01

Try asking a man his opinion, I asked DH and he said it absolutely is no different, assault is assault and women need to be called out on it the same as men

I think it needs to be unacceptable, but it is different because of the different power dynamic, as PP says.

InveterateWineDrinker · 09/12/2025 20:02

fatphalange · 09/12/2025 18:55

That’s terrible but a completely different topic- child abuse. And those crimes committed against you were by men, not women. The argument isn’t about victims being male, it’s about perpetrators being male.

Edited

Bullshit. It's about victims being victims and - in the context of this thread - perfectly capable, cognitive people looking the other way and (for OP) revelling in it.

PrestonHood121 · 09/12/2025 20:01

The colleague she assaulted and sexually harassed will have given their version of events, or will be asked to.

Climbingrosexx · 09/12/2025 20:01

Screamingabdabz · 09/12/2025 19:17

I think you did the right thing op. A lairy drunk female is in no way comparable to a male drunk groping women. The power dynamic is completely different. She was letting her hair down and probably regretted everything in the morning. Not a sackable offence imo and you were right to stay out of it.

Try asking a man his opinion, I asked DH and he said it absolutely is no different, assault is assault and women need to be called out on it the same as men

fiorentina · 09/12/2025 19:57

She maybe lovely but people who know they behave badly after too much drink should pace themselves, especially at work do’s. I find it unlikely this is the first time she’s gone wild and she has sexually harassed two male colleagues. A man doing similar at a works Xmas do would quite rightly be torn to shreds and hopefully dealt with.

You need to factually state what you saw.

DeanStockwell · 09/12/2025 19:52

Wishitsnows · 09/12/2025 14:58

I wouldn’t do anything or give a statement. However I would if the sexes were reversed.

Please can you explain why you think is ok for men to be sexual harassed/ assaulted ?
Would you say the same if it was man on man assault? Or woman on woman ?