To just accept I’m ugly?

Er, yes it is. Did you miss the "and out" bit?

This is one of several things that make me think that your problem seems more psychological than physical.

• you heard "beautiful inside and out" as an insult
• you literally panic at having a photo taken
• you see yourself as podgy in spite of being a size 8

None of this is psychologically healthy. And none of it suggests that you are anywhere near "just accepting that I'm ugly," either. Have you had any therapy for this issue?

You may or may not be physically ugly. But I think you definitely could do with some psychotherapy.

If I were you I'd go into town, get a coffee and sit in the window of a cafe and people watch. You will find that the majority of people will be overweight and absolutely ordinary in looks. Very few people are beautiful and , on a Tuesday morning in an average city/ town in the UK ,most will be wearing ordinary clothes with ordinary hair and really no effort made at all. I dare say you are no uglier than the majority of people you will see.

You are too harsh on yourself. If you are capable and healthy, why on this earth would you care about your looks or what people think of them? Trust and love yourself no matter what . I had had a life changing illness and would much rather “be ugly” (or maybe I am that too lol) , than live with the permanent physical disability I now have ! Take care of yourself!

This sounds really hard OP. I’ve been having conversations with my DD who is starting to think about and worry about how she looks in comparison to others. But beauty really is in the eye of the beholder. I think most people are average-ish and not everyone’s cup of tea and we all focus on what we see as flaws rather than the positives (eg you are clearly trim).
Would it be worth doing some kind of therapy to unpack why you feel down about this? I think you can self refer for local talking therapies which is free. I know there’s systemic things you can’t change but maybe something to help with the feelings.
also are there small things you can do to feel better about yourself? Eg working out what clothes look best, good hair cut, colour etc.
I am older now and do feel like I get ignored sometimes but I’m also starting to get into the don’t give a crap phase and making sure I’m heard (depends on the day though!). Anyway sending you best wishes x

Having a good figure just gets you more negative attention if you're ugly. Men are actually angry that you dare to look fuckable from behind or a distance, but actually, you are not fuckable at all and they have to loudly prove to their mates that they wouldn't dream of fucking you, by insulting you loudly.

Most people have zero idea of what it's really like to be ugly.

I don't know anyone who is a size 8 who has a fat anything.

Maybe a little stomach roll but that's not fat, that's normal.

Unless you're actually 4 foot 2?

To be honest I have met very very very few truly ugly people and they've all been men. Not a single one of them has been a woman.

I actually am quite concerned about your mental state OP. From your description of yourself I'm pretty sure none of your friends would think you're ugly.

I don't know why you think beautiful inside and out is not a compliment, I'd be made up if someone said that to me!

Forgot photo!

This is Tricia, founder of Look Fabulous Forever, a make up brand for older women. She is 70 and hasn't had any surgery so has wrinkles, loose skin on the throat, smallish eyes, thinnish lips, rosacea. With a bad hair cut, no make up, an apologetic posture, non descript clothes and a miserable face, she might well describe herself as ugly.

But - she looks absolutely stunning in real life. She has done what all of us need to do and focused on the positive. 90% of how we look is what we believe and how we carry ourselves. A confident smile, a well exercised body, attractive clothes, a haircut that suits us and an open, positive attitude to others. And yes, a simple, do-able make up routine can help.

Can you honestly say you are making the best of yourself? Pick one thing and make it better. Exercise is always a good place to start. As with a lot of things in life, it's not what we're given, it's what we do with it that counts.

Beautiful inside and out means you have a beautiful personality and beautiful looks, you seem to be misunderstanding the comment. I mean you can not believe her if you want but don't pretend it means something different.
I imagine your lack of self confidence is why people treat you differently if they do which im not that convinced by.

I think I am fairly unattractive, objectively. But when I think of my friends, I have to sit there and hyperfocus to understand whether someone is or isn't attractive - my mind goes to so-and-so, who has a 10/10 ability to cut through BS and improvise and make me laugh (bit overweight, wonky nose), or other person, who will go to the ends of the earth to do nice, thoughtful things for us all (whatever other physical thing). I think that's the case for most people. We don't go around reflecting constantly on other people's features, surely?

Good grief OP, I really am willing to bet you’re nowhere near as bad as you think. I have a close friend who speaks like you - it’s true that she has no one standout feature as such but all her features are perfectly nice and work together in a way that she doesn’t see. However she has amazing dress sense and is a master at makeup, she’s never been single long.

You say you can’t afford a hairdresser but hair makes such a difference. Any chance you could ask for a voucher for Xmas?

Ha there are millions of women who'd love to be a size 8! Maybe count those chickens..

I am a size 12 and plain, childless and single...life goes on regardless. I take my happiness where I can find it.

Yes it is.

They're responding in that way because you're making a big fuss. You dont have to look at yourself in a photo if you dont want to, or in a mirror.

I am another one who despises that "beauty comes from within" trope. Yes, its true to a tiny extent but research has literally shown that even attractive criminals get shorter and less harsh sentences so its largely a patronising platitude said to placate people and not because its fully accurate.

The way I look at is this- we are all dealt a hand of genetic cards when we are born. Some will have a better hand than you and some will have a worse hand and that applies to all of us equally.

One person might be born attractive but live in poverty. Another might be born not conventionally attractive but into huge generational wealth and so it goes on. All of us have some cards that are better and some that are worse in different aspects. You cannot control the cards you were dealt but you can absolutely control how you play them. Whilst noone can deny that beauty is a standard largely set by our society you can still influence people to perceive you as more attractive even if physically you arent blessed so. Therefore, I would recommend you present yourself in ways that make you happy - have your hair cut by a good stylist, experiment with which make up and clothing styles suit you best, etc

Then, focus on gaining confidence in yourself and building up good social skills and charisma. There are loads and loads of books about on this.

You might not be able to do anything about how you actually look, but you can definitely and absolutely do something about how people perceive you and you can influence people to perceive you in ways that are more favourable than your objective physical self. It's human psychology.

It’s clear which people have ‘given up’ on themselves

Attitudes like the above don't help. The pressure to look "acceptable" to others comes just as much from women as men (if not more) as the above poster proves. I don't need to make an effort to show anonymous women that I haven't "given up" why should I? Acceptance is not giving up. I just choose to focus on the things that bring me happiness. Fitting in with what society expects is no longer high on my list.

But the beautiful inside and out thing is saying you are beautiful on the outside as well! So it’s not the veiled insult you think it is. I don’t know what you look like but loads of women would kill to be a size 8. Are there any tweakments you could save up for or could you change your hair/get extensions or something?

OP, I want to share something with you that might give you a slightly different perspective.

Firstly, I have very, very rarely seen anyone who was ugly based on looks alone.

I met a man around 10 years ago and thought he was very handsome. I rarely think that about men tbh! We became good friends and as we knew each other better, he talked about how he felt about himself. His eyes were too close together; his hairline was receeding; he had a bit of a paunch developing etc. Eveytime he criticised himself I looked him and thought, "Oh, yeah, you're right!" None of those things made him unattractive but he only saw himself as a collection of features. I saw him as a whole person and would never have noticed his 'imperfections' if he hadn't drawn attention to them. Yet he felt this things made him ugly.

I'm.a teacher and one year, after making Christmas cards with my class, we left them on the windowsill to dry. The following morning, as the children came in, they went to look at them.

"Look at my star! It's really wonky! That point is too long."

"What? Yours is really good. Look at mine, the points don't meet properly in the middle!"

As each of the childen came in, they harshly criticised their own card for the smallest of details and couldn't see anything wrong with anyone else's. In truth, they were all both equally perfect and imperfect. They were unique just like the children who'd made them.

I used it as a bit fo a teaching opportunity about how we always judge ourselves more harshly than anyone else ever will. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts and all that.

And it's true. Whether it's a 42 year old man focusing on his looks or an 8 year old focusing on their Christmas card!

This is why people make suggestions like getting a good haircut or dressing well or getting your nails done or even smiling because people generally notice the whole and not the parts

In general, when people feel negatively towards themselves based on their looks, they notice the behaviour of others towards them and attribute it to the fact that they're ugly. In reality, it's nearly always down to how people with low self confidence and low self esteem present themselves.

Eg I have had a deep seated belief that I am unlikeable for many years and that that is why I have very few friends. I'm able to make friends easily but unable to sustain them. As I've got older though, I know it isn't that I'm inherently unlikeable. It's far more to do with the fact that I believe I am unlikeable and have had, over the years, a tendency to pull away from people because I dont think they like me anyway. It look me a very long time to realise I'd been doing this though. Nowadays, I still believe that I'm unlikeable but I've decided to let other people come to that conclusion themselves rather than avoiding them. And, guess what? I now have friends.

They way you see yourself impacts on you far more than anything else.

To give you an idea of how I look, my last public interaction was a drunk guy on a bus shouting at me "oi geezer with the ponytail" 😳Sure I hadn't made a huge effort that day but still!

I was the same in that with a lot of effort I could maybe push myself to maybe a 4 but when you're low numbers already it doesn't make a difference. I decided I was tired of letting society make me feel that I somehow needed to make myself "acceptable" to others. Now I please only myself.

I don't dye my hair through choice. It's expensive, an absolute nightmare to maintain (my roots used to come through within a week or two). Sometimes I wear make up, sometimes not. Really just depends if I want to. I don't pick clothes to try and "flatter" me. I wear clothes I like that make me feel good. If it makes me look bigger so be it.

The more "effort" I used to make, the more insecure I used to feel. I realised I was seeking others approval and when it didn't come, or worse I was insulted somehow, it hit me even harder. My life improved massively when I let it all go and just stopped worrying about it.

YANBU. I absolutely hate it when people trot out the 'beautiful inside' crap - usually people who are at the very least on the right side of average.

Yes, I am ugly. People who try to tell me otherwise are denying my lived experience of this - being called 'ugly' and worse by complete strangers (usually but not always men).

However, OP, it's true that age is a leveller, you just haven't quite reached that stage yet. I'm in my 50s and properly middle-aged and I now feel the comfort of being part of a homogenous mass of middle-aged women who largely pass under the radar. I don't get insulted in the street anymore and that's enough for me.

A lot of how people respond to you is how you portray yourself - don’t underestimate the effect of good posture, an assertive way of talking and a bubbly personality. Good looking people are often just more confident in themselves.

I guess it's hip to waist ratio but, but this is easily disguised with clothing, gosh a size 8? Many people would kill for that, extra around the middle or otherwise

I get how you feel because I also feel that alas I am ugly. Now in my sixties my face is much more lined than others of similar age. My teeth are wonky and my eyes appear smaller and muddy coloured. Often I would rather stay home and hide! So I do understand how you feel.