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Original poster

To tell them not to bother coming for Xmas?

533 replies

WantToHibernate · 08/12/2025 07:54

We are doing Xmas dinner this year for my husbands family and my mum and brother. We have a mix of vegans, vegetarians and meat eaters so dinner menu will reflect this.

I’ve been vegan for 20 years and my daughter who is 17 has become vegan this year. My husband and other child eat meat.

My mother and brother have always disapproved of me being vegan. Over the years they’ve told me I’m wrong and will be ill. They also do stupid things like make animal noises when they eat meat which I just roll my eyes at. Now they’ve found out, whilst discussing Xmas dinner menus at our house this weekend, that my daughter has become vegan and they’ve responded as expected, telling her she’ll be ill, that she shouldn’t listen to me ‘brainwashing and bullying’ her, quizzing her on why she has become vegan, telling her she’s mad and no better than them. My daughter remained calm, said it was her decision, that I obviously haven’t bullied or brainwashed her, that she doesn’t think she’s any better than anyone else, she just wants to be vegan. When they continued were quiz her on why she has become a vegan, they called her a ‘typical preachy vegan’. She wasn’t preaching, she just answered their questions.

Things got heated as my mother started shouting. I told her that she doesn’t get to shout at my daughter in our house about this, and that if they both don’t stop the comments they can leave and not bother coming for Xmas. My brother said our mum can say what she likes and that I owed my mum an apology for saying that. My daughter left the room. My son told my mum and brother that they were out of line and went to check on my daughter. My mum and brother left.

My brother text later on to say that when they come on Xmas day they don’t want to be seated by me or my daughter. I’ve not responded as I wanted to cool down before I did, but my husband has said to just uninvited them because they’re arseholes and he’s not risking them upsetting our daughter on Xmas day. My daughter says she isn’t bothered and thinks they’re idiots.

If I uninvite them, I think that will probably be the end of my relationships with them but I think that is possibly for the best. There have been lots of problems with them over the years and I think we may be happier without them. They have had issues with other aspects of our life, choices we’ve made, my husbands family (who are all lovely) who they see as ‘snobby’, so the vegan issue is just another thing. They are ok is small doses. My other siblings have low or no contact with them and although I invited them to dinner too, they won’t come because our mother and brother are coming.

OP posts:
Moreconsidered · 09/12/2025 06:52

@JoClogs

It's only considered appalling behaviour in middle-class circles and above.
It would not be considered appalling in a working class environment.

please do elaborate on how you have this deep insight in to various classes

Pipsquiggle · 09/12/2025 06:45

@JoClogs
FFS - It's nothing to do with class. You shouldn't make mocking sounds of animals whilst eating a meal with vegans and vegetarians.

It's basic manners or are you saying WC people aren't capable of being socially civil?

You are conflating 2 totally separate things social class and acceptable behaviour

Moreconsidered · 09/12/2025 06:37

All the Christmases and family events where your kids must have stood by and watched as their mother was pulled apart by her own mother, and their mother just sucked it up, with their dad occasionally stepping in and saying (with what appears to be very little gumption given they have continued on for years and years) tone it down.

and now your kids are uprising! Good on them. It’s just a shame it took them to actually address this properly

FollowSpot · 09/12/2025 05:46

The focus of pp on the vegan aspect of all this is interesting. Pp have chosen to declare their own dietary choices as if it affects their view of what happened, some have made stereotyped assumptions about how veganism came up , others post (very interesting, IMO) essays on the social constructs around diet.

However, this whole issue is not about veganism or the OP’s diet. It’s irrelevant.

The mother has been awkward hostile and unpleasant throughout the OP’s childhood. Long before she became vegan. The mother’s behaviour has alienated the OP’s siblings who have gone very low contact, nothing to do with siblings diet. The mother’s behaviour has undermined the brother’s life, stopping him pursuing his Uni course etc - and the brother is not vegan.

This is about the mother’s general behaviour. The reaction to veganism is just one way she demonstrates it.

WiddlinDiddlin · 09/12/2025 04:53

DBD1975 · 08/12/2025 16:34

This totally, excellent advice.

Show quote history

They've already been told this, it's been made very very clear.

Their response is 'we don't want to sit next to OP or her DD' ...

Not 'we're sorry, we promise we'll not mention it again'. Not 'we realise now it's not funny and we'll leave you guys alone'..

Just 'when we come for Christmas dinner we don't want to sit next to the vegans'.

Fuck that entirely and completely. They've had their chance and it sounds like they've had multiple chances to behave appropriately and they have zero intention of doing so.

incognitomummy · 09/12/2025 03:03

OP - ime boys often are under Mummy’s spell until around 25yo. When the scales fall of their eyes and mummy descends from the throne boy child had put her on.
you don’t say how old your brother is. But you may find something similar happens. Or perhaps not at all if she really has managed to isolate him to keep him for herself. But this is not your problem. Your kids and DH are what you need to take care of.

stand firm. Well done.

Mothership4two · 09/12/2025 01:26

@JoClogs

It's only considered appalling behaviour in middle-class circles and above.
It would not be considered appalling in a working class environment.

What?? Baloney and patronising. OP was born into the same class as her mother, so presumably she knows what would be considered rude by other working class people?

That it turned to conflict is most likely because OP's mother feels acutely that she is being looked down on by her own daughter which is the more unacceptable behaviour in my opinion.

I think this poster is projecting. No evidence of any of this from OP's comments.

edited to include the poster of these comments

JoClogs · 09/12/2025 01:21

Lifeinthemiddlelane · 09/12/2025 00:55

Oh stop it! Working class people know right from wrong just like any other class. It’s clearly wrong to insult, pick arguments with your GD and demand to not be seated anywhere near the GD or host after she cooks them a fabulous Christmas dinner.

No matter which class these relatives fall into, the OP and anyone else could do nothing else but look down on them for this appalling embarrassing behaviour. Definitely not the behaviour you’d want in front of a bigger audience on Christmas Day.

Show quote history

It's only considered appalling behaviour in middle-class circles and above.
It would not be considered appalling in a working class environment.

That it turned to conflict is most likely because OP's mother feels acutely that she is being looked down on by her own daughter which is the more unacceptable behaviour in my opinion.

Veganism is strongly associated with class - it's a way for upwardly mobile females in particular to signal their social status:

https://www.bayes.citystgeorges.ac.uk/news-and-events/news/2019/september/vegan-ethics-identity-class-ideology-thomas-robinson#:~:text=Vegans%20generally%20need%20to%20be,in%20the%20world%20of%20work.

Mothership4two · 09/12/2025 01:19

CandyCaneKisses · 08/12/2025 08:42

Do you make a big song and dance about being vegan and remind them at every opportunity? I can’t see why it’s a constant topic of conversation.
We have various foods we don’t eat but it ta never even mentioned.

Does it say anywhere that OP does? Why would anyone assume that? Mum and brother have been incredibly rude

Mothership4two · 09/12/2025 01:14

JoClogs · 09/12/2025 00:39

That's classism.

Working-class people do not follow the same social rules as the middle-classes and OP knows this. The middle-class look down on the working class, the upper-class look down on the middle-class and the aristocrats look down on everyone. The Two Ronnies did a sketch on this with John Cleese back in the sixties.

Expecting a working-class woman to behave as if she were middle-class is unfair at the very least. Standards go up with money.

Edited
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What a total load of bollox (as my DM would say).

One of my DP's came from very working class NE family (miner's child) and the other DP came from, what was then called, an upper middle class family in the South. Tne WC side know exactly how 'to behave' and funnily enough many of them are vegetarians and have been for decades. Both sides have nice homes, it's just one side's houses are smaller than the other side. No-one is looking down on anyone, although I expect it was tricky when DP first got together towards the end of the 1950s.

That sketch came from The Frost Report and is almost 60 years old. It was funny but wouldn't be relevant today - although the UK still has class hang ups (and 'vegan' ones too apparently)

JoClogs · 09/12/2025 01:05

WantToHibernate · 08/12/2025 10:30

No we don’t. The topic of food came up because we were talking about what we plan to have for Xmas dinner. My mother was being her usual arsehole self mocking what I was planning to eat because I’m vegan. My daughter stood up for me and told her that she’d been vegan since February and that she’d be eating the same as me. So no, we obviously don’t speak about it at every opportunity, as my daughter has been vegan for 10 months and they weren’t even aware.

Show quote history

"Dis moi ce que tu manges je te dirai qui tu es" Jean Anthelme Brillat-Savarin

https://www.bayes.citystgeorges.ac.uk/news-and-events/news/2019/september/vegan-ethics-identity-class-ideology-thomas-robinson#:~:text=Vegans%20generally%20need%20to%20be,in%20the%20world%20of%20work.

Lifeinthemiddlelane · 09/12/2025 00:55

JoClogs · 09/12/2025 00:39

That's classism.

Working-class people do not follow the same social rules as the middle-classes and OP knows this. The middle-class look down on the working class, the upper-class look down on the middle-class and the aristocrats look down on everyone. The Two Ronnies did a sketch on this with John Cleese back in the sixties.

Expecting a working-class woman to behave as if she were middle-class is unfair at the very least. Standards go up with money.

Edited
Show quote history

Oh stop it! Working class people know right from wrong just like any other class. It’s clearly wrong to insult, pick arguments with your GD and demand to not be seated anywhere near the GD or host after she cooks them a fabulous Christmas dinner.

No matter which class these relatives fall into, the OP and anyone else could do nothing else but look down on them for this appalling embarrassing behaviour. Definitely not the behaviour you’d want in front of a bigger audience on Christmas Day.

Nessiesfoodprovider · 09/12/2025 00:46

There's a reason your siblings are low or non contact. What an unpleasant pair. Time to drop the rope and work through any feelings of fear, obligation and/or guilt around your relationship with them.

JoClogs · 09/12/2025 00:39

Pallisers · 09/12/2025 00:18

Yeah. Most of us would be embarrassed by a mother like that.

Show quote history

That's classism.

Working-class people do not follow the same social rules as the middle-classes and OP knows this. The middle-class look down on the working class, the upper-class look down on the middle-class and the aristocrats look down on everyone. The Two Ronnies did a sketch on this with John Cleese back in the sixties.

Expecting a working-class woman to behave as if she were middle-class is unfair at the very least. Standards go up with money.

Pallisers · 09/12/2025 00:18

JoClogs · 08/12/2025 23:46

100% she looks down on her mother and is embarrassed by her.

Show quote history

Yeah. Most of us would be embarrassed by a mother like that.

NET145 · 09/12/2025 00:00

Unless and until they apologise, they should not come!

JoClogs · 08/12/2025 23:46

Livelovebehappy · 08/12/2025 23:05

Not projecting at all. Just pointing out that while her mother and brother’s behaviour isn’t good, I’m wondering how OP comes across when they visit, because her comments on here do make it sound like she looks down on them.

Show quote history

100% she looks down on her mother and is embarrassed by her.

Lifeinthemiddlelane · 08/12/2025 23:41

WantToHibernate · 08/12/2025 10:20

Thanks all.

The weekend has definitely changed things. It’s the first time that they’ve crossed the line in directing their nastiness towards our children and not just us and that is a step too far.

I have just sent a very short and to the point text telling them that they’ve crossed a line to speak to our daughter that way, that they’re no longer invited for Xmas, and from now on they’re not welcome at our house.

My husband and I have also just had a conversation with my older brother, who is low contact with them, to put him in the picture in case they contact him. He is really angry that they’ve involved our daughter. He said to leave it to him and that he’ll speak to our youngest brother in a few days to say we’re all here for him IF he gets mum out of his life, but until then, we’ve all had enough and can’t keep doing it.

So how did your text go down?

Apologies to you and your DD received and a peaceful Christmas all sorted?

JoClogs · 08/12/2025 23:37

RampantIvy · 08/12/2025 23:32

Funnily enough, none of the vegans I know are anything like the ones you have met @JoClogs
They are polite and don't preach or try to convert people.

Or maybe they just don't realise how preachy they are.

RampantIvy · 08/12/2025 23:32

Funnily enough, none of the vegans I know are anything like the ones you have met @JoClogs
They are polite and don't preach or try to convert people.

JoClogs · 08/12/2025 23:28

Rivendellcarrot · 08/12/2025 22:31

Did you miss the OP saying her mother makes animal noises at her. How in anyway is that acceptable? Also, veganism is not a fad.

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Her mum making animal noises reminded me of The Royles.
It made me chuckle because like OP I grew up in a working-class family where that kind of behaviour is considered funny (quelle horreur!).

Veganism is very much a middle-class fad - you won't find too many vegans in working-class areas and I also think it is unhealthy in the long-term or requires so much work to not end up with multiple vitamin deficiencies.

Also, I've met plenty of vegans over the years for whom it is a quasi religion.
Once, while abroad for a team-building event, 3 vegans out of a group of 25 colleagues imposed their religious food beliefs on the rest of us. We all had to eat at a vegan restaurant in Prague. The food was awful and I thought their approach was authoritarian.

Loobyloolovesandypandy · 08/12/2025 23:25

KingJanie · 08/12/2025 08:09

It does sound like they have some inferiority complex and they view the veganism as a personal judgement.

It may be worth considering if anything has happened which may have led them to see interactions with your family this way. There may be slight suggestions of this which seem nothing to you but huge to them.

But ultimately they are responsible for their behaviour.

I agree with the inferiority complex. I suspect if you don’t uninvite you will hugely regret it. Hope you have a lovely day 🌷

AiryFairyLights · 08/12/2025 23:11

WantToHibernate · 08/12/2025 08:14

I think you and everyone else is right. I’ve mainly kept in touch for my brothers sake. He’s the youngest, with a big age gap and my mum isn’t a very nice person. I had hoped that he would break free of her and then be able to have a normal relationship with me and the rest of the siblings.

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He may do one day….. but not anytime soon while he’s seeing his mum get away with it! The disrespect shown to you and your daughter would be an absolute deal breaker for me! Not only their behavior in your home, but to demand not to be sat next to you or your daughter - I don’t actually know anyone who would be brave or stupid enough to even suggest that to me! THAT @WantToHibernate should be the final straw and time for you to literally shut the door on them and do not allow their toxicity back into your haven. If you don’t do it now, they’ll continue as they always have, because they get away with it. Put a stop to it and enjoy the family and friends that respect you and yours ❤️

Pallisers · 08/12/2025 23:10

Livelovebehappy · 08/12/2025 22:33

Agree. I sense from OPs posts that there is a bit of a snobby element going on. Maybe parents are re-acting to being talked down to themselves. I only know a few vegans, but they can be quite preachy and condescending to ‘meat eaters’. I guess we only know half the story here.

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I guess we only know half the story on every single bloody thread on this forum - do you understand how forums like this work?

You read the OP and thought she was talking down to her mother? You thought her daughter was talking down? Is simple comprehension not taught any more?

I suspect "vegan" was triggering to a lot of posters who might love to make animal noises at vegans and think veganism is snobby.

sprigatito · 08/12/2025 23:08

Livelovebehappy · 08/12/2025 23:05

Not projecting at all. Just pointing out that while her mother and brother’s behaviour isn’t good, I’m wondering how OP comes across when they visit, because her comments on here do make it sound like she looks down on them.

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Well, if people choose to lie in the gutter, one has little choice but to look down on them!

Honestly, posters will twist themselves into the most uncomfortable shapes to find a way to blame an OP 🤯