Page 4 | To tell them not to bother coming for Xmas?

WantToHibernate · 2025-12-08T07:54:24+00:00

We are doing Xmas dinner this year for my husbands family and my mum and brother. We have a mix of vegans, vegetarians and meat eaters so dinner menu will reflect this. I’ve been vegan for 20 years and my daughter who is 17 has become vegan this year. My husband and other child eat meat. My mother and brother have always disapproved of me being vegan. Over the years they’ve told me I’m wrong and will be ill. They also do stupid things like make animal noises when they eat meat which I just roll my eyes at. Now they’ve found out, whilst discussing Xmas dinner menus at our house this weekend, that my daughter has become vegan and they’ve responded as expected, telling her she’ll be ill, that she shouldn’t listen to me ‘brainwashing and bullying’ her, quizzing her on why she has become vegan, telling her she’s mad and no better than them. My daughter remained calm, said it was her decision, that I obviously haven’t bullied or brainwashed her, that she doesn’t think she’s any better than anyone else, she just wants to be vegan. When they continued were quiz her on why she has become a vegan, they called her a ‘typical preachy vegan’. She wasn’t preaching, she just answered their questions. Things got heated as my mother started shouting. I told her that she doesn’t get to shout at my daughter in our house about this, and that if they both don’t stop the comments they can leave and not bother coming for Xmas. My brother said our mum can say what she likes and that I owed my mum an apology for saying that. My daughter left the room. My son told my mum and brother that they were out of line and went to check on my daughter. My mum and brother left. My brother text later on to say that when they come on Xmas day they don’t want to be seated by me or my daughter. I’ve not responded as I wanted to cool down before I did, but my husband has said to just uninvited them because they’re arseholes and he’s not risking them upsetting our daughter on Xmas day. My daughter says she isn’t bothered and thinks they’re idiots. If I uninvite them, I think that will probably be the end of my relationships with them but I think that is possibly for the best. There have been lots of problems with them over the years and I think we may be happier without them. They have had issues with other aspects of our life, choices we’ve made, my husbands family (who are all lovely) who they see as ‘snobby’, so the vegan issue is just another thing. They are ok is small doses. My other siblings have low or no contact with them and although I invited them to dinner too, they won’t come because our mother and brother are coming.

Noseyoldcow · 09/12/2025 17:31

Couldyounot · 08/12/2025 07:56

Your house
Your rules

And your choice of what food to serve. Or not.

AskingAgainPlease · 09/12/2025 17:19

JoClogs · 09/12/2025 01:21

It's only considered appalling behaviour in middle-class circles and above.
It would not be considered appalling in a working class environment.

That it turned to conflict is most likely because OP's mother feels acutely that she is being looked down on by her own daughter which is the more unacceptable behaviour in my opinion.

Veganism is strongly associated with class - it's a way for upwardly mobile females in particular to signal their social status:

https://www.bayes.citystgeorges.ac.uk/news-and-events/news/2019/september/vegan-ethics-identity-class-ideology-thomas-robinson#:~:text=Vegans%20generally%20need%20to%20be,in%20the%20world%20of%20work.

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My nephew became a vegan aged 10. Omnivore parents. How does that fit with your prejudices?

AskingAgainPlease · 09/12/2025 16:54

JoClogs · 08/12/2025 23:28

Her mum making animal noises reminded me of The Royles.
It made me chuckle because like OP I grew up in a working-class family where that kind of behaviour is considered funny (quelle horreur!).

Veganism is very much a middle-class fad - you won't find too many vegans in working-class areas and I also think it is unhealthy in the long-term or requires so much work to not end up with multiple vitamin deficiencies.

Also, I've met plenty of vegans over the years for whom it is a quasi religion.
Once, while abroad for a team-building event, 3 vegans out of a group of 25 colleagues imposed their religious food beliefs on the rest of us. We all had to eat at a vegan restaurant in Prague. The food was awful and I thought their approach was authoritarian.

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And there are plenty of people who you would not know are vegans. Who are not preachy. It is definitely not a fad. I have a family member who has been vegan since she was 10 and she is now almost 30.

You need to try and get rid of all your preconceived ideas and stereotypes and start again.

AskingAgainPlease · 09/12/2025 16:51

RampantIvy · 08/12/2025 22:47

@Livelovebehappy and @JoClogs please will you both stop projecting and making up your own narrative?

This is for the chips on your shoulders.

Excellent comment!

The vegans in my family are not remotely preachy. Such a cliche.

ToWhitToWhoo · 09/12/2025 16:42

JoClogs · 09/12/2025 01:21

It's only considered appalling behaviour in middle-class circles and above.
It would not be considered appalling in a working class environment.

That it turned to conflict is most likely because OP's mother feels acutely that she is being looked down on by her own daughter which is the more unacceptable behaviour in my opinion.

Veganism is strongly associated with class - it's a way for upwardly mobile females in particular to signal their social status:

https://www.bayes.citystgeorges.ac.uk/news-and-events/news/2019/september/vegan-ethics-identity-class-ideology-thomas-robinson#:~:text=Vegans%20generally%20need%20to%20be,in%20the%20world%20of%20work.

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It is probably true that people who grew up with insufficient food, or at least limited choice, due to poverty or other factors such as growing up in wartime, may be less willing as hosts to accommodate what they see as 'fussy eating'. (Though this is not always true.)

But this would apply when THEY are the hosts. Being bloody rude in someone else's home, especially when the hosts have gone to some trouble to accommodate your wishes, is just not acceptable in any portion of society.

And the OP isn't looking down on her mother. She is angry with her mother (with good reason). Being angry with someone is not the same thing as looking down on them.

ToWhitToWhoo · 09/12/2025 16:30

JoClogs · 08/12/2025 23:28

Her mum making animal noises reminded me of The Royles.
It made me chuckle because like OP I grew up in a working-class family where that kind of behaviour is considered funny (quelle horreur!).

Veganism is very much a middle-class fad - you won't find too many vegans in working-class areas and I also think it is unhealthy in the long-term or requires so much work to not end up with multiple vitamin deficiencies.

Also, I've met plenty of vegans over the years for whom it is a quasi religion.
Once, while abroad for a team-building event, 3 vegans out of a group of 25 colleagues imposed their religious food beliefs on the rest of us. We all had to eat at a vegan restaurant in Prague. The food was awful and I thought their approach was authoritarian.

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But the OP is not forcing her food choices on the visiting relatives. She is providing choices of meal for both meat-eaters and vegetarians.

And if the OP's mum has only just found out that dd is vegan, 10 months after she started, dd can hardly have been banging on about it.

BMW6 · 09/12/2025 14:58

I'm so glad you've told them they're no longer welcome OP

FollowSpot · 09/12/2025 11:57

Actually, years before many people were vegan, the Royle Family response to a vegetarian guest was a curious but kindly "Could she have wafer thin ham, Barbara?"

And even Jim, not noted for his tact or empathy with new ideas, says "leave the poor girl alone" as they press Dairylea cheese on her.

RampantIvy · 09/12/2025 11:52

Well said @thepariscrimefiles
DH's family is about as working class as you can get and they don't behave like this. SIL is vegetarian and has had no-one commenting negatively on her dietary choices (except that she is a plain eater and very fussy so eating out with her can be a trial).

Lunde · 09/12/2025 11:52

JoClogs · 09/12/2025 00:39

That's classism.

Working-class people do not follow the same social rules as the middle-classes and OP knows this. The middle-class look down on the working class, the upper-class look down on the middle-class and the aristocrats look down on everyone. The Two Ronnies did a sketch on this with John Cleese back in the sixties.

Expecting a working-class woman to behave as if she were middle-class is unfair at the very least. Standards go up with money.

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Wow - that it such a classist statement, You are saying that working class people don't know how to behave at a dinner table because of different "social rules". Are you always so patronising to working class people?

My working class, cockney granny would not stand for any of your bollocks. Nor would she stand for animal noises at her dinner table.

thepariscrimefiles · 09/12/2025 11:27

JoClogs · 09/12/2025 01:21

It's only considered appalling behaviour in middle-class circles and above.
It would not be considered appalling in a working class environment.

That it turned to conflict is most likely because OP's mother feels acutely that she is being looked down on by her own daughter which is the more unacceptable behaviour in my opinion.

Veganism is strongly associated with class - it's a way for upwardly mobile females in particular to signal their social status:

https://www.bayes.citystgeorges.ac.uk/news-and-events/news/2019/september/vegan-ethics-identity-class-ideology-thomas-robinson#:~:text=Vegans%20generally%20need%20to%20be,in%20the%20world%20of%20work.

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If OP's mum is being looked down on by her daughter, it's because her mum is a rude, ungrateful twat, not because OP has now got ideas above her station.

Her mum is deeply unpleasant and that certainly isn't a working class trait.

SandyY2K · 09/12/2025 11:26

WantToHibernate · 08/12/2025 09:02

My children are well aware of what my childhood looked like and that the reason I’ve kept in touch is to try to help my brother. They know that I don’t like my mother but understand the situation. My children have had a very normal and loving childhood. They’ve not had a huge amount of contact with my mother so they were shielded from it all until they have been able to understand the situation as they got older. My children don’t think of her as a grandmother in the same way they do my husbands mum, who is lovely. As well as feeling a duty to care for my children, I have also felt a responsibility towards my brother who is only a young adult. It’s not easy to just walk away now and it certainly wasn’t when he was a child.

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The best response would be,

" I've decided not to have you/mum over on Christmas day, after the way you/mum behaved towards me and my daughter, so the seating arrangements won't be an issue"

Take care

moderate · 09/12/2025 11:19

JoClogs · 09/12/2025 01:21

It's only considered appalling behaviour in middle-class circles and above.
It would not be considered appalling in a working class environment.

That it turned to conflict is most likely because OP's mother feels acutely that she is being looked down on by her own daughter which is the more unacceptable behaviour in my opinion.

Veganism is strongly associated with class - it's a way for upwardly mobile females in particular to signal their social status:

https://www.bayes.citystgeorges.ac.uk/news-and-events/news/2019/september/vegan-ethics-identity-class-ideology-thomas-robinson#:~:text=Vegans%20generally%20need%20to%20be,in%20the%20world%20of%20work.

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But of course, the working classes could not possibly be expected to comport themselves with dignity. How could they know any better than to make animal noises? Just as well you know how best to avoid looking down on them, @JoClogs . Please, tell us more!

Mistyglade · 09/12/2025 10:43

They can fuck right off let alone for the vegan bashing but for shouting at your DD. If a member if my family did that to my DS I’d escort them out my door before they could say Christmas dinner.

grumpygrape · 09/12/2025 10:32

All this class rubbish and accusing OP of going on about being vegan won't wash because her husband and other child manage to cope with her and they live with her. Also OP said her now vegan daughter had been vegan for months before her GM found out so OP was hardly crowing about converting her.
Happy Christmas OP 🎄

Gingercatlover · 09/12/2025 09:14

Well done OP, really feel for you.

Trying to to do the right thing by your younger brother, at least your older siblings and you are all on the same page.

secretrocker · 09/12/2025 09:14

JoClogs · 08/12/2025 23:28

Her mum making animal noises reminded me of The Royles.
It made me chuckle because like OP I grew up in a working-class family where that kind of behaviour is considered funny (quelle horreur!).

Veganism is very much a middle-class fad - you won't find too many vegans in working-class areas and I also think it is unhealthy in the long-term or requires so much work to not end up with multiple vitamin deficiencies.

Also, I've met plenty of vegans over the years for whom it is a quasi religion.
Once, while abroad for a team-building event, 3 vegans out of a group of 25 colleagues imposed their religious food beliefs on the rest of us. We all had to eat at a vegan restaurant in Prague. The food was awful and I thought their approach was authoritarian.

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That's hilarious.
DH and I are from working class backgrounds and (quelle horreur!) both vegan.
The northern town we live in is pretty run down and very working class, not the kind of place you get fancy vegan restaurants, and I know at least 50 local vegans and almost all of them are working class.
Ridiculous.

NoisyViewer · 09/12/2025 09:01

JoClogs · 09/12/2025 01:21

It's only considered appalling behaviour in middle-class circles and above.
It would not be considered appalling in a working class environment.

That it turned to conflict is most likely because OP's mother feels acutely that she is being looked down on by her own daughter which is the more unacceptable behaviour in my opinion.

Veganism is strongly associated with class - it's a way for upwardly mobile females in particular to signal their social status:

https://www.bayes.citystgeorges.ac.uk/news-and-events/news/2019/september/vegan-ethics-identity-class-ideology-thomas-robinson#:~:text=Vegans%20generally%20need%20to%20be,in%20the%20world%20of%20work.

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Oh come on. No one above the age of 20 will tolerate being chastised by their mother regardless of class. Tolerating her mom when she was younger was a survival mechanism. Something she had to do. She now has her own family & quite frankly she’s put up with it far too long only biting when it came to her own child. This isn’t about class it’s about entitlement. The mother coming to someone else’s house & putting down the law. I’m sure if she had expressed her concerns in a normal way she’d still be invited to dinner. The OP isn’t banning meat but is actually accommodating all diets. Which I must say is going above & beyond because I’ve known & found it completely reasonable to ask guests with dietary preferences to bring their own food as it’s to much for one person to cook several different dishes

diddl · 09/12/2025 09:00

Is it classicism/snobby to look down on/be embarrassed about someone who makes animal noises whilst eating?

They sound deranged.

Imdunfer · 09/12/2025 08:38

JoClogs · 08/12/2025 20:40

For the OP to reflect on her own behaviour too.
Looking down on her mother or acting superior around her could be contributing to her chippy and rude behaviour.

Also, she's only got one mother and who knows how long she will be around especially if she has a drinking problem.
Anyone I've ever met with a drinking problem usually has a pretty tough backstory. It's a lot easier to be pleasant when you are financially secure.

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My mother was from a poor background but became a total middle class snob. Which was largely unconnected to her narcissistic behaviour which made me cut off all contact with her a decade ago. Some parents are toxic. Please stop blaming the OP, she's been an absolute hero taking toxic shit from her mother in an attempt to protect her little brother.

Now she needs to join the rest of her siblings in cutting contact to protect herself.

RampantIvy · 09/12/2025 08:09

A vegan diet provides all the nutrients required (including B12 which is abundant in many leafy green vegetables).

@OneWildBiscuit I think you are confusing this with iron. Vitamin B12 is the only nutrient that is not naturally available in plant based foods.

Several food items are fortified with it - cereals, plant milks, tofu etc.

As for @JoClogs will you stop with the "working class people don't know how to behave" nonsense!

Every time you post your made up theories you dig yourself into a deeper hole.

ChristmasMantleStatue · 09/12/2025 07:40

JoClogs · 09/12/2025 00:39

That's classism.

Working-class people do not follow the same social rules as the middle-classes and OP knows this. The middle-class look down on the working class, the upper-class look down on the middle-class and the aristocrats look down on everyone. The Two Ronnies did a sketch on this with John Cleese back in the sixties.

Expecting a working-class woman to behave as if she were middle-class is unfair at the very least. Standards go up with money.

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I think that saying that 'the working class' don't follow the same social rules- when the specific examples given by the OP are that her mother is rude, toxic, berates her, shouts at her granddaughter in her own home, gets drunk and possibly kicks off on Christmas day (thus being violent and aggressive by definition) is ... incredibly classist and patronising, @JoClogs .

OneWildBiscuit · 09/12/2025 07:28

Well they clearly weren't eating healthily then, were they? It's possible to be healthy or unhealthy regardless of what type of diet you follow.

A vegan diet provides all the nutrients required (including B12 which is abundant in many leafy green vegetables).

I've been vegan since 1981 and I'm perfectly fit and healthy. I know plenty of people who are younger than me and very unhealthy with numerous health conditions that require multitudes of medicines and limit how they live their lives. None of them are vegans.

If people are becoming very ill on a vegan diet, they're doing something very wrong!

OneWildBiscuit · 09/12/2025 07:13

JoClogs · 09/12/2025 01:21

It's only considered appalling behaviour in middle-class circles and above.
It would not be considered appalling in a working class environment.

That it turned to conflict is most likely because OP's mother feels acutely that she is being looked down on by her own daughter which is the more unacceptable behaviour in my opinion.

Veganism is strongly associated with class - it's a way for upwardly mobile females in particular to signal their social status:

https://www.bayes.citystgeorges.ac.uk/news-and-events/news/2019/september/vegan-ethics-identity-class-ideology-thomas-robinson#:~:text=Vegans%20generally%20need%20to%20be,in%20the%20world%20of%20work.

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I've never heard such bollocks in a long time. Classic carnivorous cognitive dissonance!

Veganism has precisely fuck all to do with class.

OneWildBiscuit · 09/12/2025 07:10

The cognitive dissonance is strong with those two!

They're ignorant, misinformed, and exceptionally rude. No way would they be welcome to sit at my table after behaving like that. Uninvite them...if that means the breakdown of your relationship, it doesn't sound like that'd be much of a loss.