To think monogamy is outdated and unrealistic?

You jump around and cherry pick a lot.

But we know testosterone is linked to sex drive. A lot of women now micro dose testosterone in perimenopause precisely to increase their sex drive as well. But I’m more familiar with detrans women’s experience on this hormone.

It’s weird you ascribe some sort of moral aspect to this. Having a higher sex drive is neither a good or bad thing, it just is.

But it can apparently be hard to cope with, if you aren’t used to the effects. I’ve heard men on testosterone can get very strange urges that aren’t even necessarily related to higher sex drives, I think it is supposed to act on reward pathways too.

The very idea of a ONS is repellent to me. No way would I want a stranger in my bed (or anywhere else). I have zero sexual interest in someone I've just met, it takes getting to know them and investing months of time/energy before I actually want sex. Monogamy in a long-term relationship suits me perfectly.

I think we need monogamy to provide stable upbrings for children. Otherwise men would be having lots of sex, impregnating women and then moving on. Also sexual diseases would increase. There’s risks to women’s health by having frequent and different partners.

No, they don't. Read the post, you are incorrect. Then read the book if you like. Do some research, or continue to believe outdated, debunked notions.

You are repeating outdated, debunked lies that men of the past made up to excuse their bad behaviour.

You won't be convinced of course and I won't respond to any more replies denying the facts.

Bye 🖐

The reason men behave more like fucking shits than women do is NOT a higher sex drive, it is being far more powerful and getting do what they like with fewer consequences, and that is coupled with lower empathy. NOT sex drive

They absolutely do have higher sex drives. It’s the testosterone. I know a few detrans who tell me that the effect of T on their sex drive was …. eye opening.

I understand serial monogamy.

I don’t understand ONS. If you liked it, why not repeat? If you didn’t, what was the point?

And no, men's sex drives are not higher than women's. This is a comment I posted on another thread.

I forgot to add too that sex therapists have stated clearly that they often have women complaining that they want more sex than their husband.

As I said elsewhere, the daft theories invented by men to explain why men just had to screw around are just that - daft and completely debunked theories.

Modern theory has it that early humans, moved around in small groups where the women had sex with several men in the group for protection and to ensure that if pregnant the men would not know if it was their offspring or not, ensuring her their care and resources.

This also explains why women are multi orgasmic - to encourage them to seek out lots of different types of healthy sperm, and why women have evolved to mask their fertile period, most men have no idea when she is at her most fertile and cannot guess if they are the father based on that.

It also explains sperm wars. Sperm lives inside women for a couple of days, if she has sex with several different men then only the strongest sperm will conquer the other sperm, they actually fight one another to get to the egg.

Read the book What Women Really Want by Daniel Bergner, it utterly debunks the notion that men are more sexual than women. Using devices to measure arousal, men and women were both shown lots of sexual images. The women were aroused by pretty much everything, no matter if they identified themselves as heterosexual or not. However men who identified as heterosexual were mainly aroused by heterosexual images. Women even indicated physical arousal from watching Bonobos get it on.

Eye tracking technology also proves that women look at the shoulder to hip ratio, then men's bottoms and if the penis is on view the penis is very interesting to women.

And then there's the huge elephant in the room nobody wants to address. It is a fact that around 3 years in to a relationship, women's sexual interest in their current partner dips massively.

But it's not that she doesn't want sex. It's that she doesn't want sex with HIM.

Introduce her favourite fantasy man and she is instantly sexual again.

This is nature's way of ensuring women will sleep around. Men, however, are almost always still very interested in their female partners sexually, often all throughout the relationship however long it lasts.

It also explains the absolutely extraordinary lengths men have always gone to to try to keep their women away from other men, from chastity belts to violence to constant societal scolding - if men weren't worried about women sleeping around none of this would be necessary at all.

And none of this is to say, at all, that just because women are wired for sleeping with many different men that they have to, or they should.

Both sexes are physically wired for many partners - particularly women - but mentally, it turns out (see all of history) that we are very much wired for the pair bond, most of us anyway.

Both sexes have the choice to do the right thing, always, or the wrong thing.
There is no get out of jail free card for men or women. Doing the wrong thing by the person who loves and trusts you is always entirely a choice.

And all of that in response to the usual comment trying to explain away why men behave like fucking shits.

The reason men behave more like fucking shits than women do is NOT a higher sex drive, it is being far more powerful and getting do what they like with fewer consequences, and that is coupled with lower empathy. NOT sex drive.

However, the reality is that despite all of this, despite the pull of the sex drive for both sexes - people prefer monogamy, and that has remained steady. Because no matter what your hormones, vagina or penis is telling you most of us want a mate and that goes beyond and above sex, someone you can trust, who won't assault or murder you, who will have your back, nurse you, a person to confide in, to watch TV and go on holiday with - both sexes want that.

And for those who don't, no problem - just be honest about it. Sleep with anyone you want, but be upfront and honest.

@SoftBalletShoes I was referring more to the way society judged people back in say the 1950’s and ‘60’s when it really was legally complex to get divorce and there was a stigma attached unless perhaps you were rich and famous. Back then, people got married and were expected to put up with treatment that would horrify us today.

Of course, women couldn’t independently get mortgages or credit cards then, which made it even more difficult to walk away from a relationship (unless your father helped you).

Thats why I do think that monogamy is a choice nowadays.

I think it's still horribly judged. MN is full of comments about how divorced people gave up too easily, think the grass is greener, and are all-round just fickle. It always strikes me as a real cheek, when some of us who are divorced fought tooth and nail to keep it together and sacrificed so very much, and then got dumped anyway. My marriage meant the world to me, and I was 100 percent committed for life. I think it will be my one and only marriage. He became very abusive, and it's put me off relationships forever.

But I've been pleasantly surprised by dating. I've met some wonderful men who were much nicer than my exH, and much better in bed. I had some great non-pressured times with them and am friends with them all to this day.

Of course I would rather be in a happy longterm marriage with someone I adore, but since I don't have that, I have had a lot of fun in different ways. My marriage was very difficult, and meeting men who are much more normal has been very refreshing.

I still never want to live with a man again, though. I envy the longterm happy couples I know a lot, and wonder why that couldn't have been my story when I worked so hard on my marriage and was so committed, but then I remember how difficult marriage can be. Swings and roundabouts.

I also think that many couples stay together for financial reasons, which is a rational, rather than a romantic decision.

Yes you rarely see the wives of rich famous men leave them-they hang on for dear life! Through cheating and all sorts which would be a deal-breaker for women married to regular men.

I don't think it's outdated, I think it's an ideal, and a lovely one, but it's a tall order for some people.

I know I'm generalising, but men's sex drives are often far, far stronger than women's, and that is a problem in long marriages. I'm of the opinion that this is not only due to hormones (like testosterone being ten times more in men) but I'm pretty sure that the act itself feels ten times better for men. The clitoris isn't very involved in penetration. I'm sure it would feel amazing if it was huge and stick-like and you could put the whole thing into something that stimulated it on all sides.

I don't know why we as a society are so reluctant to acknowledge that penetration feels so much better for men, in all likelihood, and that sex is much more important to men. Maybe both sexes would be happier if these things were acknowledged. But instead, women are supposed to be sex machines like men, and the fact is that we are not built for it like they are, hormonally or physically.

Of course there are exceptions. But the majority of women don't reliably climax from penetration.

I've come to believe that men and women are totally mismatched sexually.

Where that leaves marriage, I do not know.

@nomas I disagree. I think people stay with abusive men because they’re too frightened to leave, but who would judge them if they did? I also think that many couples stay together for financial reasons, which is a rational, rather than a romantic decision.

As for staying with useless men, that’s a personal choice. Presumably they love them? My Mum stayed with my Dad despite all his problems, even though many of their friends divorced. They still loved each other. 🤷

Society has changed massively in the last 50-60 years, splitting up isn’t judged in the way it once was.

Well if you think there is nothing wrong with it then why aren't you doing it?, I couldn't think of anything more boring personally but you dont need to justify it to us

It definitely is not long gone, that's absurd.

You only have to spend time on MN to see just how many women stay with abusive and/or useless men because society has taught women that even a shit man is better than no man.

Sounds egalitarian but in reality, it will be mostly men shagging around whilst women are busy raising kids and working and doing housework.

Monogamy is chosen by people not imposed upon them.

Exactly @GreyCarpet , the old social pressure to stay in a marriage or LTR for example, is long gone. Couples stay together because they choose to-perhaps their reasons don’t always make sense outsiders, but it’s their choice.

Many people genuinely like and admire their long-term partners, my DH is pretty ace!

🤮

Right. I think most of us practice serial monogamy. The only time I cheated on anyone was on holiday abroad I kissed a bloke when I had a boyfriend, I was about 20 at the time, felt shithouse about it and have never done anything like that since, cheating and multiple partners is not for me - but I am certainly not still with my first serious boyfriend from decades ago!

We are emotionally wired to pair bond, and we do best when we have our own one special person. Whether that looks like one year, ten years, twenty or fifty - monogamy is not getting less popular (despite what some would have you believe).

Each to their own, and so long as the OP is being honest with their "commitment free shags" good luck to them, but I think the gloss will wear off that pretty soon.

I think you can be a monogamist but also enjoy ONS when you are single. I don’t think you have to be one type of person.

It’s 2025/6. If you want to sleep with multiple people / have lots of relationships you can… but I find people trying to take down monogamy really annoying. It ain’t happening.

It's not for me! I like going to bed next to my husband who knows what I like and how to do it. There's a lot to be said for the trust built up and the great sex that comes with it imo.

Not a stealth boast but Im in a committed loving relationship and the sex is amazing. Im in my 50s too and was single for most of my 40s and tried ONS, and casual relationships and it did absolutely nothing for me. If me and my DP split I would not go back to that. I worked out very quickly that as much as I love sex - I only love it in a proper monogamous relationship. That isn't socialisation or being conservative because I gave it a red hot try and was open to exploring that side of myself. But not to be crass, but men in ONS just didn't make me orgasm - it just was all a bit shit and grubby. I was always left feeling frustrated and bored by it all. I need connection - and that takes time.

I don't judge women who can do the casual thing - in fact Im pretty envious, because if you enjoy that its soooooo easy to find! Fill your boots I say. But I don't think monogamy is outdated or unrealistic. I think some people love it and some don't.

Genetics have fuck all to do with anything.

I find it really sad when people can't imagine themselves getting old with their partners.

I'm looking forward to drooping ears and hairy nostrils and helping each other down steps.

I don't want to go through life acting like a middle aged male cliche, thinking I need to upgrade every few years for excitement.

Feck that.

I want companionship and a friendship that stands the test of time.

I think different things suit different people. I have spent my life in a mixture of long term relationships and fwb, and I love both. I don’t think I could do “for life” as I do miss the new feeling.
The affair stats agree with my way.
But many love being with the same person too

Well, I was fine with it, but you do you, 👍