To think this should be sick leave not annual leave?

Check your sick policy, they’ll definitely have something which covers this sort of scenario.

They get away with it because they can.

people not being aware of their rights under the equality act, managers not being aware of their responsibilities under the equality act or managers who try to use threats of warnings/the sack to prevent people from kicking up a fuss.

Even with correct policies and EDI teams it’s still happening. It’s grim.

a true story: not nhs but a healthcare business that was heavily associated as being a huge supporter of cancer charities/survivors etc - someone who was off sick for 6mths for cancer treatment. - then after a couple months of being back she got flu - immune system was still a bit out of whack and they’d put her straight back customer facing - had to have a couple of weeks off

the area manager tried to tell the line manager that they had to put the employee through disciplinary and give her a final written warning due to unacceptable absence levels. Because of cancer!!!

The manager had some morals though and told the area manager point blank she wouldn’t do that and was threatened with her job so she stepped down from management. Not sure what happened to employee in the end but that’s the sort of shit disabled workers have to deal with.

Christ, who’d work for the NHS! Hope you get it sorted OP.

(As an aside, I feel this is where I’m justified in never using the term “annual leave”. It’s holiday. Our HR system actually calls it holiday. The OP isn’t taking holiday.)

Then you need to be having a word with your manager as well.

the idea of the equality act is to make things equal -

if you didn’t have MS you wouldn’t be needing to take time off for additional appts or treatments.

therefore under the equality act reasonable adjustments must be made to ensure staff with disabilities are not disadvantaged when taking time for appts or treatments or sickness related to their disability.

by telling you you must take a/l or toil for these appts your manager is disadvantaging you because you are having to use these for appts that a non disabled person wouldn’t need to.

to take it as unpaid is the same principle - you’re colleagues wouldn’t need too lose salary due to disabilities so you shouldn’t but unfortunately- there’s no automatic right under law for it to it to be paid - some employers will allow it to be recorded as sick leave - others have disability leave policies to distinguish between the two which are paid /partial paid or unpaid

—others may just have it unpaid authorised absence - but that would be leaving them open to discrimination claims

if that’s the case that’s it’s unpaid and you chose to take as a/l or toil that’s your choice but it’s pretty shitty to be forced into that position so again - most trusts will have a paid disability leave policy. You may need adjustments in place to recognise this but again this should be automatically considered by your manager.

shift swaps - yes at a push if you are able (ie it isn’t going to cause detriment to health eg if an epileptic nurse was told to have the time off for a neurology appt was only possible if she swapped her allocated day shift for a night shift would be unacceptable
so no shift swaps aren’t enforceable either

in short - the correct and equitable way to record the time is for the treatment itself - disability leave. Post treatment when you are too unwell to work - sick leave - get a fit note.

If you have a good doctor will record first day of not fit to work as the first day of treatment though - it’s sick leave ☺️

Speaking as someone who has never been employed by the nhs, this is absurd. I can't imagine any situation where any business I've ever worked for in the last 40+ years would be so unyielding about this. I'm appalled.

Definitely not annual leave. Just persist and as lovely as your manager might be, it doesn't really sound like she is actually that supportive.

We are all really bums on seats (or whatever job you do) and easily replaceable at work but not for your family. Look after yourself first before your job and ask for reasonable adjustments for your work load etc.

Does your trust have a sickness team or an equality and diversity team as part of HR? If so I would contact them as in our trust if it’s a long term condition you can have time off for planned appointments without having to work it back and you can ask for a reasonable adjustment passport to cover this and time off

Occ Health practitioner here (I ran an OH department in a large NHS trust for 6 years). You are likely to be covered by the Disability provisions of the Equality Act (2010). Therefore your manager has to consider reasonable adjustments for your condition. One of which is likely to be time off to attend appointments. So you technically don't have to take it as either. Ask for a referral to OH to discuss what if any reasonable adjustments you might require.

If you are in a union talk to them as well.

There is a policy for medical treatment (nhs also). I have MS & I’m not sure if you have too but I have to take mine as a/l or if my manager agrees I can use TOIL. There is a policy for disability leave which might be applicable but it has to be pre-planned so can be used for change of medication but your manager needs to agree this.

@Toddlerteaplease i also work in the NHS and totally agree this is not annual leave. a chronic condition is protected under equality act, this would be discrimination. I work with a lady with a chronic health condition she has a lot of health and medical appointments she does not need to take leave it’s just granted.speak to union rep for clarity and HR. I don’t think anyone would side with the manager in this instance.

@Popadomorbread totally agree. I work for the NHS you need to have your condition registered. !

if your neurological condition is classed as a disability under the act then it is disability leave, not annual leave and not sick leave

They should have an attendance management policy. They should have an occupational health department and they should have a special leave policy. You should be able to find this info on your intranet or through HR

It’s definitely not annual leave, so sorry @Toddlerteaplease !

Hi- I work for NHS OH and cover 10 different Trusts in our region. Most (but not all) of the Trusts I offer OH advice for would allow you to take this as disability leave as opposed to sick or annual leave. Most (but not all) the Trusts I cover will have a policy to cover this. The policy could have many names, Either a ‘managing attendance’ or Disability and reasonable adjustments’ or ‘special leave’. I hope you get it sorted 😊

Not being facetious but it is true, surely? MS is a, long-term neurological disability that's protected under the Equality Act. I'm not challenging you to have a go, but to understand by the way

Whilst I agree that there is a lack of common sense in telling you that you need to return to work after an appointment that will leave you unfit for work, please don't say what this poster has suggested about the Equality Act.

"Remind her your treatment is disability related and in line with the equality act you don’t need to take it as annual leave as that would be classed as disadvantaging you under eq act which is discrimination."

This is just not true and it will undermine your position if you're throwing around incorrect law in such a threatening way.

Your matron is using some bizarre (albeit not uncommon) logic, if it's not sick leave because your not sick, how does she think it becomes annual leave, as it's not a holiday?
I agree it likely won't be 'standard' sick leave (not least because planned time off for medical appointments doesn't count against you in the same way as unplanned sickness for absence policy) but there is usually something in place regarding it, it definitely shouldn't be annual leave. Best practice would be that you have the option to have if paid, adjustments could be that you have to make up the time. It shouldn't impact on your AL though.

So you absolutely do need a well being plan with adjustments in place then ….I was taking around 5 weeks off a year for treatments….none of it was recorded as sick….I’m nhs

Then go back and ask her for all policies relating to absence /sick leave /long term health conditions etc

. Remind her your treatment is disability related and in line with the equality act you don’t need to take it as annual leave as that would be classed as disadvantaging you under eq act which is discrimination.

and that you want a full OH referral followed by formal documentation of adjustments.

if she’s lovely - she’ll understand

but you do need them - you need them for appts.

your matron sounds like a prick.

Sounds a lot like Ocreveus for MS, if that right? If so, I’m currently on that and all my infusions aren’t even sick leave, as I request the time off in advance. Its ‘authorised absence’