To think that some people conflate being “intellectual” with rejecting anything spiritual?

I am not very smart these days, nor am I intellectual.

I used to be a squeek above average I would say, but hey, age gets us all I suppose :-) But when I was smarter I used to be religious. Now not at all, and I am very anti woo.

I disagree with your premise, Here is why.

The Pope, or take any other example, is really really smart, without a doubt. But I can predict with near 100 % certainty that even he could not explain to me how Christianity is true. Now given that he is massively smarter than me, and that he believes in it, the only conclusion I can see is that I am just not smart enough to understand.

So my view is a reversal of your premise.

And the thing is, I will never be as smart as the Pope.

Woo next, crystal energy etc. Same again. I am a vertical thinker, energy measured and described in Si units. If something can't be explained to me in terms of Si units, then I just can't understand it. My brain is just not clever enough to process a woo thing to the point of understanding. So same conclusion as with the Pope really.

Not sure exactly what a "medic" is (not a doctor, presumably), but the fact a doctor believes in something is irrelevant. Doctors aren't intellectuals, are they?

Loads of people with mega-brains believe in some kind of greater interconnectedness beyond the physical world. It would be unscientific to write it off entirely.

Same. Im married to a medic and we tend to socialise with other medics, lots of them have a faith.

That came up in the course of yesterday’s thread about aliens having built the Pyramids.

The point about the effects of ‘the death of God’ is that the combination of the Enlightenment and the spread of education throughout Western society is that superstition really ought not to have retained any influence, given the rejection of religious faith on intellectual grounds.
Yet this wasn’t borne out by experience at all.
The rise of newly-hatched Neo-Paganism, parts of the Celtic Revival, theosophy, Madame Blavatsky, Crowley, the adoption of Eastern religions, experimenting with hallucinogens and other ways to alter our consciousness, and innumerable other replacements for faith in (a) god erupted, and have not quit even though we live mostly in secular, well-educated and broadly informed societies now.

Not that one day a nineteenth-century atheist decided that this was the day he’d fossick about for something new in which to believe.
No, it’s been our apparently unconscious need to have connection with the numinous, however it may present itself or be inferred.
(Not a universal thing, and many have no such interest let alone a need, of course)

I cited the case of a bloke I’ve recently been reading about, a (literally!) rocket scientist who, though usually uncredited, was in a way second only to W von B in getting men to the Moon.
Yet at the same time as he was toiling away on great intellectual work based on rigour and reason ( and daring too), he was in full flight as a devotee and ardent acolyte of two monstrous myth-makers whose power depended on followers’ credulity and an appetite to be given something supposedly out of this world to embrace.

(Yikes, you didn't ask for ‘War and Peace’ there, and a ‘yes’ or ‘no’ would probably have sufficed!)

But you said

It’s only on MN that this happens, in real life people aren’t so black and white.

So do the people you know who don't believe, suddenly start pretending that they do when they talk to you?

Or do they pretend they believe a bit so you think it's not so black and white?

It's not very clear.

I am absolutely having these conversations, I have a belief in spirituality and I have friends and family who do and do not. All very comfortable sharing their opinions without deeming another unintelligent for having an opposing belief.

Oddly though you don’t see others here calling religious people uneducated or unintelligent because of their beliefs.

You see it all the time on MN though 😳

Although quite often the posts get deleted.

If you're not seeing it in real life, you're either not having those conversations or you're mixing with people who feel more comfortable stating their opinions online.

It’s only on MN that this happens, in real life people aren’t so black and white. Oddly though you don’t see others here calling religious people uneducated or unintelligent because of their beliefs. Apparently believing in God is fine but ghosts make you an idiot. MN is a weird place at times and not representative of many.

Personally I think you’re not being unreasonable someone has to think outside the box and come up with theories before you can test it and gain any possible evidence. Most theories seemed insane until they were tested and evidence collect. I think it’s unfortunate that this age of information has created a large pool of people that are very against creativity and open-mindedness. I think someone’s people think being openminded to possibilities is a strong belief in the metaphysical , you don’t need to believe in the metaphysical to be open to its existence. Personally I don’t approve of anyone treating anyone poorly about any of their beliefs

I was a scientist. I know full well there are more things in heaven & earth etc. But I have an educated view of the world that is consistent with known facts. Extraordinary ideas will require extraordinary proof. Show me that proof and I will be convinced. Until then I am sceptical. If you believe in ghosts you will need to show me how they can fit into a consistent world view where people don’t know the future (or secrets from our ancestors, etc).

Can you explain what you mean by spiritual?

To me, it sounds like you are explaining comfort in the familiar and nostalgic, your heritage and lineage, the beauties of the traditions you maintain. All of these things seem rational and comprehensible to me.

Is there something beyond these things that make them "spiritual"? I genuinely don't know what you mean.

I know plenty of doctors who believe in religion

Define spiritual.

You should listen to Nick Cave speaking on faith.

Yes, but it makes complete sense. It’s no coincidence that church attendances, belief in superstition, etc. has fallen as society has become better educated.

There's certainly a degree of 'I am against organised religion, therefore I am smarter than religious people'.

And don't get me wrong, there are plenty of reasons to take issue with organised religion. But I think a lot of people don't understand that religion/spirituality fits into people's lives in different ways. Some people don't believe in unseen spiritual forces, but find some spirituality in their life brings them calm and focus; some people (like me) follow their religion - I'm Jewish - because it is the spiritual and cultural tradition they were born into. And while I don't believe in God, I still find value in practices and rituals.

So I do roll my eyes a bit when I see statements along the line of 'All religious people are dumb/gullible, hahaha, they believe in some big Sky Daddy'. 'Being religious' can take many forms and they're not all credulous and/or dogmatic.

I think it’s a tricky one as I don’t think people who get so mistrustful of medical science they won’t accept treatment is ever a good thing, for example.

I do think there is a trend for the very proudly rational to be quite disrespectful and unkind about faith though - especially Christian belief or non traditional spiritual beliefs I would say. I don’t think being unimaginative about why some people might get a great deal of comfort or be inspired to do amazing things by their faith is particular intelligent though, so I do agree with you.

I think there’s a difference between not accepting something as fact and rejecting it outright as meaningless or foolish

Similarly, there’s a difference between accepting that you can’t explain something you (think you) saw or experienced, and viewing it as evidence of something otherworldly, paranormal or woo.

It’s really more likely to be mice than your dead auntie.

What does 'strict proof' mean?

There's either proof or there isn't.

If someone told me they have 12 fingers, I'd ask to see their hands.

If they kept them in their pockets but still maintained it was the truth, I'd walk away thinking they were either a liar or deluded.

And scientists are always saying ‘I don’t know’, or ‘we don’t know yet’. It’s all about curiosity!

‘Intuitions’ can often have a rational basis, they may arise from cues (real, physical things) we’re not consciously aware of.

It's like the idea of fate, intuition, synchronicity or even a loose belief in “something more” gets lumped in with being irrational

Well, you've just questioned why your list of irrational things gets lumped in with being irrational. I don't think you have to be an intellectual to work that one out.

...or educated.

There are plenty of educated people who are irrational, spiritual, religious, stupid or any combination of the above.