That primary schools in Essex don’t have classes of 45 kids

My sons school had 66 start in one reception, not enough to fund 3 teachers and too many for 2. They created a free flow system between 2 teacher and 3 tas over 3 classrooms. They ideally try not to go over 30 a class.

I agree, unfortunately in my area the school sold it as being great to potential parents, did they use the word 'freeflow' might be the same school.

I looked around a primary that had that same set-up (also in Essex) and it was utter bedlam. Completely open plan with 60 reception kids, 2 class teachers. I can't remember how many LSAs there were

In the early noughties my comprehensive had some classes much bigger than that, because they split some into top set (in the lecture room type thingy-the room was removed a few years later) with 70 odd kids, the middle set with about 35, and the bottom with far fewer.
This was not in every class, and as I moved countries, I can't say how typical it was, but my primary started with fewer than 30 kids and then we ended up with 50.
If we're talking now, my kids were officially in classes of no more than 30, but they mixed up year groups for some things, and because some children needed a lot more support, some of the ones who don't tend to say they get ignored as long as they're behaving.
Friends who are teachers now tell me it's not about the numbers as much as not having enough extra support for all the children who need it, which is what my kids say, more or less.

Not exactly - they call it 'freeflow' which doesn't imply two separate classes. So how come we have large class sizes in Essex and the rest of the country doesn't? 👀

I work in a large state secondary (non teaching role) and was a governor at primary for many years. Most I’ve seen is 34 which has happened in both KS2 and KS3. But it’s rare rather than often.

They’ve grossly exaggerated to try to justify their decision. Also, the ‘unofficial Send register’ they claim their son is on sounds like another attempt at justification. I’m guessing it’s what my school would class as SEN support - milder SEN that can be managed without recourse to an EHCP. State schools can also offer this. As for their daughter being the youngest in the year, well someone has to! They would have had the option to defer entry into reception if they’d felt she would benefit from being one of the oldest rather than the youngest.

I read the article this morning. The parents haven't done themselves any favours. Had the wife chosen not to work, the RAF would have paid the fees and they would have had military housing. She has every right to work. They have every right to send their children to a private school. In other words, they made choices and didn't think through the consequences, including affordability should fees rise. Along the way, they've rubbished stare education. Well done, The Times.

My DD went to a school in Essex and was in a reception class of 44. They split the class with a bifold wall. One class got the teacher and my DD’s got the HLTA who worked together.

We’ve since moved because of the poor education she received at that school. She’s now in a mixed year group of about 21 with 11 in her year group. She’s thriving and the education she now receives is just worlds apart from what she had.

I'm in Essex. My local primary has an intake of 45 per year. It had historically been under subscribed and unpopular, but a lot of housing development meant it did start getting filled up. They did have 1 reception teacher for one Reception year that had the maximum and used HLTA to cover between the 2 classes. Many parents were unhappy but as an academy they could legally do this. I've no idea how they've organised it since.

The site used to be a separate infant and junior school which made splitting the reception year awkward

There's a couple of other with 45 intake, but just do mixed year groups.

We had a class of 38 in my previous school. Up until then 36 was the max.

45 kids in a class?! That sounds like something from the 1960s or 1970s. When I was at primary school from 1968 - 1975,it was not uncommon to have 36 kids in a class. Class sizes of less than 30 were very rare. But that seems to be a thing of the past. My DGD left school a year ago and she said there was never more than 30 in a class.

@Dabralor Yes. Often in hen and chickens classrooms. One larger one and probably 2 or more smaller side rooms for quiet work. DD had 66 dc in her YR class before 30 limit and 2 teachers and I think 2 or 3 TAs in YR! Difficult to imagine now.

Not in Essex but a local secondary has had groups of between 60-90 children in classes.

This was due to staff shortages (they quit) and so there were classes where a teacher was just supervising silent textbook work. It made the local news.

Needless to say that this isn’t a popular school.

I'm in Essex and one of our local primaries also has two teachers teaching 60 children in one large room, certainly for reception don't know about older years.

@latetothefisting Nursery has different rules. It’s a staffing ratio, not a teacher ratio. Often a teacher in charge but TAs or nursery nurses are the staff.

Secondary is limited by size of classroom. If schools have big rooms, they don’t necessarily have to limit group size. Most schools don’t have large teaching spaces though.

When I taught in England the classes capped at 33, though some local authorities didn’t count twins as two children as if the parents wanted them in the same class, one space entitled the other. So the biggest I ever had was 35 (two sets of twins).

My mother actually started school in a class of 45 in 1963 because one of the teachers eloped over the summer and therefore had to leave the workforce. When they got a new teacher the class was not split 22/23, but 16/29 because the class size was dictated by the size of the available classrooms 🙃

Most I’ve had in my class was 39…this was in my second year of teaching, back in 1996, and I had a Year 3 class in a mobile ‘Prefab’ classroom. It was bonkers! No TAs either…just me and 39 x 7 year olds in a damp, leaky, prefab, a good 5 minute walk away from the main school building. All good fun 😬

I can’t imagine 45 primary aged children would even fit in a classroom though!!

Do they team teach possibly?!

My daughter has 34 in her class, state school.

At my primary school it was 48 to a class. That was late 50s early 60s so there are classrooms that would work but don't think that's happened in a long time.

They are consulting on which schools to lower the PAN in here due to falling numbers.

Maybe the could move down here (lots of hospitals and a military area!)

I went to secondary school in the mid 00s and it was quite common to have up to 38 in a class. Even my history A level had that many (although bizarrely there were fewer of us taking English but that was split into 2 smaller classes, I can only assume because they didn't expect so many to choose history).

My sister was the only teacher in a nursery class that had 70 kids a year or two ago, but she had 5/6 TAs (or whatever the number needed to meet the adult to child ratio). They basically used two classes and opened up the corridor in between with the attached toilets to make one very large space.

Not always. My sister's class who had around 45 in as I said upthread had probably about ten children who had clear behavioural needs.
One of them was finally moved to a special school in year 6, the school having been asking for help for years, after he nearly strangled a fellow classmate. There were twins who had learning difficulties who were very disruptive, then another three or four who we could often hear shouting - even though my classroom was the other side of the hall. There was another who charged through the playground with a fence post he'd ripped out of the ground threatening a teacher who'd called him to go inside (probably for vandalising the fence post!).

My form was generally lovely, but the form below us were so bad that teachers left the school rather than risk having them!

Quite common in the sixties to have classes of well over 40 maybe almost 50 but the kids who were SEN or behaviour problems were in a special class of about 15.

My son was in a year six class of 45 children, in Essex.

They had 2 teachers in the mornings though and were split for maths and literacy.