Expectations of children in church choirs

YANBU. I take my 8yo to church and she can sit through and behave perfectly. 8 isn’t too young to have this expectation. My 6yo would be fine too but I wouldn’t expect every 6yo to but at 8 yes.

Sure, but they’d jumped through a lot of hoops to be there, and it would have been made very clear to them and their parents thst this was a serious commitment, effectively a job, with significant time commitment at Christmas, Easter etc. I think that’s different to an ordinary parish choir.

grumpy older members of the congregation

Oh here we go.

Goodness knows where the thinkers, philosophers, poets of the future will come from if no-one is capable of existing even for a short time without some external distraction.

That is fine for toddlers, but these are children who have expressed interest, who turn up for choir practice and could be asked to perform at weddings. Squabbling and activity sheets - no. We are not doing this generation any good by babying them like this.

Yabu

Matthew 19:14 “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”

The effect of being stricter about this: the more capable and compliant ones will behave better but enjoy it less and leave sooner. The ones who struggle more due to neurodiversity or other issues will simply stop coming.

It is much better for the church to welcome the bit of noise and scuffling that is natural in a child that hasn't been told off for being themselves than it is for the grumpy older members of the congregation to approve of them being made to be unnaturally still and silent. In my experience the grumpy older members of the congregation will always find something to moan about, so solving a thing that they moan about never actually reduces the net moaning.

I think that you can expect it, but you need to explicitly train them up. Set expectations, explain about making up stories in their heads / reading the music and hearing it in their head / thinking up good things for a game of eye spy / doing a bit of mindfulness (which they often also do at school). You can’t just expect them to work out how to sit quietly for 20 minutes from never having done it.

The kids in the OP are probably being made to go by their parents. I was and I hated every minute. Now a committed atheist. Could never sing in any case!

I was in the choir when I was young, probably 9 - 11. I sat quietly, it wouldn’t have occurred to any of the children to muck about, or need an activity sheet. I do however remember it being bone crushingly boring.

Are they regular churchgoers?

The ability to sit silently and still and just think and exist in one’s own head is a very useful skill in adult life. It does need building up gradually and a lot of practice though which unfortunately so many people short circuit with phones and activity sheets. I’d be mortified if my twelve year old needed activity sheets to sit quietly and behave in a church.

I would definitely expect an 8-year-old to be able to sit still and participate appropriately, even more so for an activity they no doubt wanted to do.

My DC's primary school choir used to do special collaborations with a local grown-up choir, performing in the cathedral or town hall a couple of times a year. They would have been Year 3 onwards (so 7/8 and above). They were expected to attend rehearsals and learn their parts, sit quietly and patiently, stand up on the signal, file out quietly when done. No activity sheets or other entertainments provided.

But DC are now nearly grown up, so this was almost 10 years ago. I think behaviour and people's expectations of behaviour (for all ages!) has got a lot poorer in the interim.

I scroll on my phone during the painfully long periods of time-wasting in our choir practices.
Director: Here… are your… starting notes.
A soprano: Are we observing the comma after Jesu?
Director: Oh. Er… good point… Let’s see… how does… it scan… gram…mat…i…cal…ly?

But more seriously, yes. Sitting still is an unfortunate but necessary part of performing in anything. Teach them to play silent games of I Spy in their heads.

Teachers have the excruciatingly boring task of invigilating exams. I heard a discussion that they play Pac-Man when walking between the desks, or one of them whispers to another “who do you think will become prime minister?” They then stand near that pupil. Adults have ways of dealing with boring things (although choristers shouldn’t whisper. Adults have been told off for that at my church.)

We had to sit quietly and look interested in the sermon or we got a sharp poke in the back from the older ladies, conveniently sitting on the pew behind. I guess that option is not on the table, now.

12 is too old for boys - their voice will break in a year or so. . My DS was in a cathedral choir from 8 and they certainly were able to sit still through a lengthy sermon.

I’ve worked with children in voluntary and professional roles for nearly 20 years and I can safety say that attention spans have dropped significantly over the past 5 years (except maybe when it has come to watching a screen!) so this doesn’t surprise me in the slightest!

Is this a parish church, a chorister programme, or something else? Do they actually want to be there?

YANBU. I was in a junior church choir for years. We had to sit and behave.

Minimum age should be increased to 12
8 is still very young

Probably YANBU, but how old are they?