To think midwife’s get a rubbish deal compared to teachers?

Absolutely roaring laughing at the 6.5 hour day!!! If only!!!

Just under £35k for a new probationer teacher in Scotland

And getting a TLR or onto UPS is not easy these days as schools can't afford either, but still expect the work done.

Find that very hard to believe. How could you actually prove how the delivery of a child could affect something 17 years later?

It varies depending on subject, but for most classroom teachers the workload is immense.There's also the fact that you find yourself dealing with 30 clients at a time. You're expected to teach, be a social worker, police...

You literally take your work home with you and you're working nights, weekends and holidays for no extra pay. That's on top of the expected Continuing Professional Development.

However, you're right in that a teacher wouldn't normally expect to have to be responsible for a life or death situation.

If a patient or relative becomes verbally abusive or violent, I think that a hospital professional has more recourse than a teacher. No - I'm not making it into a competition: just pointing out the problems that might face someone going into teaching.

By the time I retired from my permanent post as a teacher, the verbal abuse was happening daily with no possibility of refusing to see the abuser again. The physical abuse has become worse.

I did my last supply stint last year and was hit twice in the space of a week or so.

Nevertheless, you're right - I wouldn't want the responsibility over life and death faced by a midwife.

Sorry, I was talking about op saying that midwives struggle to get annual leave approved.* *

‘can book time off when needed, though hard to get approval’.

Can we agree both are not paid well for the responsibility they hold. Midwives help mums give birth and teachers help them grow up to be helpful humans (mostly). Both suffer abuse I'm sure, me from 6 foot year 11s who are high or just angry, and midwives from mums giving birth (& they can be v angry !). Once had a scalpel held to my throat - will never get paid enough for that.

@Sunshineo how do you get time off in term time ???? Who covers your lessons ? Never had a day approved unless for bereavement.

@Midwifeacher it's up to your sister and she must do what she wants to do.

I believe midwives can earn overtime; teachers can't.

DD is a teacher and earns an additional £250pw from tutoring. Base salary £42k with LW and SEN allowance. She's 27.

Pretty sure that you don’t just get UPS through length of service. - it’s something you have to apply for and prove. But there are also TLRs available, more often in secondary schools.

Your starting salary figures for midwifery are incorrect.

Newly qualified midwives start on Agenda for Change Band 5. The bottom of Band 5 pays £31,047.

https://www.nhsemployers.org/articles/pay-scales-202526

In addition, unsocial hours attract enhanced pay: x1.3 for nights and Saturdays, x1.6 for Sundays and Bank Holidays. This will substantially uplift the pay of most newly qualified midwives who tend to do a lot of out of hours work.

https://www.nhsemployers.org/articles/unsocial-hours-payments

If you’re going to start a goady thread, at least try to get the numbers right

I don't agree they're badly paid - if you pension they're both earn well above average. Tough jobs, yes, but not badly paid.

£45k for a teacher plus pension = £57k
£42k for a midwife plus pension = £51k

Teachers rarely have to make life or death decisions and be accountable for their job many many years later.
Don't midwives have some level of accountability until the child is 18?

Btw it isn’t hard to get time off. Where has that come from? Obviously it’s not always approved but it’s not hard.

Oh how I wish I worked a 6.5 hour day 😂. Was 12 hours today and will be working most of the weekend to get mocks marked (only 421 to do). Yes, the holidays are nice but a pain if kids grown up as have to pay a premium to go on holiday. Can never take a day off in term time so miss all sorts of family things.
However midwives are under paid. And so am I. Had a chair thrown at my head, told to F off and broke up a fight today. Not a bad day to be honest.

Well the teachers’ holiday is higher than everyone - it’s not midwives getting a raw deal, they get a standard amount of holiday.

And the midwives’ pension employer contribution is hardly peanuts!

AFAIK midwives don't work five 12 hour shifts a week either, so I wonder how many of your other facts are incorrect.

Vastly different callings and use different abilities.
I cuddle be a mw. No way could I be a teacher.

My questions would be what she likes about both roles?

Band 6 midwives aren’t management, that would be 7 and above.

Midwives are unionised.

Both are stressful, underpaid and not appreciated enough. If your sister wants a stress free, easy, well paid job where she is appreciated then neither role is for her.

I thought midwives, nurses etc only worked 3 shifts a week as their shifts were 12hrs long?

Cross posted with PP

Midwives who work 12.5 hour shifts generally work 3 days per week and 1 4 day week = 37.5 hours.

there pay at top band 6 is near 47k and some midwives start on B6.

due to the hours there is a lot of scope for overtime and using AL wisely allows for more holidays combined with days off.

the emotional toll is massive but the emotional reward equally as so. The empowerment you get to give women is not measurable in any other profession (IMO) to bring life into the world is one of the most amazing things

when midwifery works and you don’t work in a toxic environment it is the best job in the world

I think you’re really selling the teaching career. Hope she listens to you. You’re obviously wanting the best for her.

I don't know if all your other facts are correct or the arrangements for midwives to write up their patient notes but teachers' directed time is 1265 hours, which includes all class-facing time, some planning and recording time, Parents Consultations and a small amount of contingency time, with no teacher ever reporting that it is enough time to do all their preparation and record-keeping. That is quite a long way from the 6.5 hors per day that you reported.

Also I don't know why you think that teachers aren't paid for bank holidays. A teacher's annual f/t salary is based on 1265 hours over 195 days in school, paid in 12 monthly instalments. P/t teachers are entitled to pro rata BH pay.

UPS is teachers with some responsibilities above "just" classroom teaching. It might be being a trainee mentor, or a whole school role.

They're pretty similar imo. Swings and roundabouts re perceived perks.

I don't like pitting professionals against each other.