We need to talk about men needing to be partners, not 'providers and protectors'

Not at all. I don’t need a sense of achievement, I’ve ran successful businesses in the past and am now content with my family and life. A job would have to add to that, and I’m hoping the one I’m about to start will, even if I don’t take a salary.

@cupfinalchaos If you're working and earning a wage doesn't that give you a sense of achievement/contributing though? Regardless of how wealthy your husband is?

I’m about to start a part time job in something I’ve always wanted to do, but due to paying tax on dh’s company am going to ask to be voluntary as there wouldn’t be much point in being paid.

@cupfinalchaos Do you work?

Not in the way dh does. Very few people could provide at that level but I like to think I made up for it in other ways.

@cupfinalchaos Do you also equally provide?

If somebody made a thread titled 'All Romanians are filthy losers' would you consider that discrimination?

What would it say about the level of objection to it if it was allowed to stay up and the majority of votes agreed that Romanians were indeed filthy losers?

Rightly or wrongly my dh loves to provide. Not to control, or expect anything in return, he genuinely enjoys providing for his family. Doesn’t stop him doing beyond his fair share of the housework.

Loving the idea that because a few posters on MN (which has a lot of male posters, as we can see) are upset at work, this is evidence of women being more aggressive and violent than men. I mean, if you think Daily Fail is gospel and MN is a completely apt representation of the totality of female nature...what a world you inhabit!

You can use AI now, which might not quite coincide with your world view but does actually use real sources, often with the data linked. Here is a simple one, seeing as we are playing lazy thinking:

Men commit significantly more violent crime than women, consistently accounting for the vast majority (around 70-80% or more) of violent offenders, perpetrators of murder, and convictions, though women commit a larger proportion of certain offenses like child cruelty or domestic abuse (as victims/perpetrators in specific dynamics), with key drivers often linked to gender socialization, social status, and substance abuse.
Key Statistics & Trends (UK/General)

• Overall Offending: Males make up the majority of individuals in the criminal justice system (e.g., 78% of defendants in 2023 UK) and account for over 80% of all crimes committed.
• Violent Crime: Men are disproportionately responsible for violent crime. In one Scottish study, 73% of violent incidents involved male offenders only.
• Serious Offences: Men commit nearly all murder and rape convictions (over 90-99%).
• Arrests: For violence against the person, males account for a larger proportion of arrests than females (e.g., 44% of male arrests vs. 55% of female arrests in 2021/22 for violence against person, but males still far outnumber females in total arrests for this).
• Domestic Abuse: While men are overwhelmingly the perpetrators of domestic abuse, a higher proportion of women experience coercive control and intimate partner violence.

Why the Difference?

• Socialization & Gender Roles: Traditional gender roles may socialize males to be more aggressive and females to be more passive, influencing offending patterns.
• Social Status & Inequality: Some theories suggest that as women gain social equality, their crime rates might rise, but overall rates remain lower due to systemic disadvantages.
• Persistence: A small group of persistent offenders, typically male and often with substance abuse or personality disorders, commit a large percentage of violent crimes.

In essence, while women's involvement in crime has increased faster in recent decades, men remain the dominant group in overall crime statistics, particularly violent and severe offenses, with statistics highlighting gendered patterns in types of crimes committed.

Are you suggesting that men as a class are suffering from discrimination?

Low level bullying is also often how domestic violence/coercive control starts. 💡

Like, I saw a thread on here a while back titled 'All men are filthy losers'. Even a dumdum like me knows you probably couldn't start a thread saying all benefits claimants are filthy losers. So what's the criteria?

If it's based on statistics then can we talk shit about the ethnic minorities that are 'over represented at every stage of the criminal justice system'?

What about those that are over represented in sex crimes? Usually people on here get quite irate when that's discussed.

Well, I'm clearly doing this wrong. Perhaps somebody could make a list of the demographics it's OK to discriminate against.

I think you might want to work on your thinking if you don’t grasp the difference between ‘All black people sell drugs’ and ‘Men commit the vast majority of violent crimes globally’.

Wonder if the people that bang on about violent men also think all black people sell drugs and all Muslims are terrorists.

Half of the human race have started a war? 🤔

Now, now. I'll have you know low-level workplace bullying is how Hitler got started.

And you don’t think there might be a teeny, tiny difference between one woman bullying her reports and the female half of the human race habitually deploying violence and starting wars?

What are you on about?? Women falling out with their female managers has got exactly nothing to do with macho BS on being “a protector and a provider”. That’s just whataboutery.

Current thread on yet another female manager bullying her female reports. 👀

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5455643-manager-is-making-my-life-hell?reply=149007201

Yes, it's anecdotal, but I'd be deeply surprised if MN were more patriarchal than the rest of the UK.

The thing with people like you is that no source will ever be sufficient. And if it does look like it might actually challenge your beliefs you'll probs just refuse to read it or find some random excuse. I've seen it many times before now.

There's unlikely to be many peer reviewed studies on women falling out and having petty arguments. Anybody with half a brain would guess as much. What we have is numerous studies showing that women dislike working for other women even more than men do, are less likely to cooperate with other women at work, and won't help each other up the ladder (which they blame men for lol).

And anecdotally that thread is full of women talking about female bosses being work bullies and descends into petty squabbling that you don't really see much on men's forums.

I mean, you're getting all narky with another woman for saying women often don't get along. Don't you see the irony? 🤣

I predict I'll soon be accused of being a man.

So can we discount the work of women working for orgs like Women's Aid? They're just people doing a job for money as you put it.

I asked for a source and you have yet to supply one

What statistics? We are talking about men being women’s “protectors”. You have simply talked about when men help people for money. That’s not a stat. It’s a discussion of a profession. Nurses and carers also help people. I would not use them as an example that women are men’s “emotional support”.

You seem unable to make a coherent point. The reality is men cannot be women’s “protectors” if most harm women face is from men.