AIBU - 2 year old suddenly crying at nursery with male staff member

It's not strange men who are the most likely abusers, it's members of the family and those already known to the family

Exactly. And it's a choice to leave your child with a female nursery worker, who could easily be one of the perpetrators of 2% of CSA - which is just as devastating and horrific if you are their victim as it is the male perpetrators.

You have to decide whether you're happy with eliminating only 98% of the chance of your child being abused, or whether nothing less than 100% will be good enough. Either that or you trust the safeguarding procedures and remain vigilant when using a childcare facility, as most parents do.

The person you are replying to is pretending that men have not raped and abused women in women's rape shelters, that men do not masturbate to women's trauma stories and this person (man) is also pretending that the reason men are banned from women's rape shelters has nothing to do with the fact that men are by far the most predatory sex.

And now I see they were pretending they can't just Google the stats proving that men, are the predatory sex.

This person is a walking red flag.

What haunts me is that we probably don't even suspect most of those who are doing it because we are too busy worrying about men.

Speak for yourself. Women may be far less likely to sexually abuse, but it's certainly possible, especially if they're doing so with or for a male partner. They're absolutely still a risk - you never know, and you can't assume. And of course, they pose a risk for physical abuse and neglect, too.

As for the specific numbers, 'Childcare sexual abuse is mostly committed by men' but there is only one comprehensive study on the issue, from the 80s, where while 'men made up only about 5% of childcare staff, they were responsible for 60% of the offences'.

As this article says:

Four Corners asked Arachnid analysts to scrape dark web forums on child care to see how offenders talk and plan.
Most of the material is too explicit to show, but the discussions reveal how organised and deviant they really are.
One of these guides instructs predators applying for work at childcare centres on how to answer job interview questions about why they want to work with children.
"First of all, I love children. And since I don't have any of my own yet, I really feel like I'm missing out on something very important in life, that is being a father and having the role of taking care of and giving safety to children. I would really like to have this opportunity since I look at this profession and role as a gift," the guide suggests as an answer.
"One really good news for us paedophiles is that most daycare centers, or any similar institutions, look at men as a positive thing. This is because they want the children to have male role models — this is actually a very important subject in children pedagogy today," the handbook says.
[...]
'[Dr Bourke] said the rise of the internet had profoundly impacted child abuse and paedophiles.
"When I began working in this field 25 years ago, child sex offenders were the lone wolves out there … and now with the internet, they're hunting in packs and they are strategic, they are vicious, and they are supporting each other as they hunt.
"There is an entire network that is facilitating more and more egregious acts of harm against children. And … it's increasing at an almost exponential rate."
Dr Bourke's warning is stark: "They're better organised than we are. They're more strategic and, if they go to the right place where supervision is missing and policies aren't enforced, they're capable of having many, many victims.
"Parents need to be vigilant. They need to trust their instincts, and they need to communicate with their children and communicate with other parents and communicate with staff and make sure that they're not missing any signs that something is amiss."
[...]
Professor Salter said the disturbing nature of the material made it difficult for law enforcement to convey the gravity of the problem without "terrifying" the public.
"The truth is what we see online, it's worse than people could possibly imagine. It's beyond the outer bounds of a normal imagination."

Trigger warning:

"One statement from an offender on the dark web that really stood out for me was he said, 'Babies are meat, babies are meat and you can't tell me anything different,'" Professor Salter said.

So. I ask: Do you really want to hold the doors of nurseries open to these predators, and serve your children up on a platter?

"struggling" 🙄

It really is. It's incredibly creepy that you are pretending not to know this. You are a walking red flag. I won't passive aggressively pretend to wish you good luck.

It really isn't. It's your choice to still believe that to be true, though. Good Luck.

I understand that you know what I said to be completely true.

And yes, that is exactly why women have single sex rape shelters.

I understand that you believe that. It might even be true. But that isn't why rape crisis centres are usually single sexed.

No, men do rape and abuse women in these settings too, and wank off to the women's stories of being raped and abused.

And because many of the women are absolutely totally and utterly terrified of them.

But the simple fact is that they are banned because they are men and men, as a group, are the greatest predatory risk. End.

If you want to limit ALL risk everyone must get sterilised immediately and no more children must be born.

But since that's stupid, we'll just work on removing the absolutely specific, well studied, verified and definite risk to little children - being left alone with strange men.

And many parents do send their children to nursery!

Safeguarding procedures are followed to minimise risk. No system is ever going to be fail safe, like everything in life we assess risks and act to make changes.

If not sending your children to nursery is addressing the risk for you, then that is fine (taking into account that most abuse is carried out by people we know), Many parents do not have that choice.

Do you keep your children at home? Would you use a child minder? What about school?

Men arent banned from them because they think that other males using the service will harm women. They are banned because women have been abused and traumatised by men and need a single sex environment to heal. It isnt because they think those men using the service are so dangerous that they will abuse the women.

Right. And no, it's not worth the risk. Not at all. Sexual abuse destroys lives.

Any man who cares about children would understand that the verified reality is that most children are sexually abused by men and refuse to add a completely unnecessary and well verified risk to their care.

@Squishedpassenger safeguarding works that way though. All men banned from women only rape crisis centres for example. Read Julie Bindels latest article in the Telegraph. I agree men should not work in Nursery, female only wards, or anywhere where children or women are vulnerable. The stats tell us this.

If you want to eliminate ALL risk then don’t leave your child with anyone. Because that’s the only way.

CSA in these settings is rare.

That doesnt translate to male nursery workers imposing a much greater risk than their female counterparts. You can't just take data from one area and extrapolate it to another.

I feel like that too.I have never known any man to have an interest in working or caring for babies or toddlers.

Have you bothered to read this thread at all? Scroll up there are plenty of statistics that have been posted as well studies.

Men hold 98 percent of convictions for CSA and women hold 2 percent that is the only statistic you need to know. If you can’t infer the horrific implications of that stat in real time when there will be an increase in male recruitment then you have a different agenda. Frankly no other agenda takes precedent over child safety.

No a lot of parents don’t send their under 3s to nursery because we all know the safeguarding isn’t followed as well as it should. Especially the younger the child more lax their attitude because said child is unable to report abuse.

If you believe in this safeguarding so much then how did Thomas Waller and Vincent Chan get away with the the abuse for so long? In Waller’s case it was the child who outed him to his own parents and it took several years for staff to be suspicious of Chan and even then it was a deep dive into his electronics that uncovered the truth a year later.

Nurseries are breeding grounds for all sorts of abuse and neglect. Pretending they aren’t isn’t going to change that fact. Putting male or female working rights before child safety is a deplorable direction this country is taking.

Explain to me how this safeguarding policy that you trust in so much could have prevent Vincent Chan from digitally penetrating a two year old girl whilst she was asleep?

There’s also been cases of female nursery workers abusing children and a case where one left a child to suffocate . If there’s no reaction when you leave your dd with a female staff member I would be concerned and raise with the manager. I would ask how she’s getting in generally and mention she’s nervous around the male worker. See your GP but at this stage the police seems too soon

Also can you give specific numbers on the hugely increased risk so we can decide individually if we think the risk is huge.

What about the female workers who abuse children? Sexually and otherwise. What haunts me is that we probably don't even suspect most of those who are doing it because we are too busy worrying about men.

There is a young woman going through criminal proceedings at the moment for sexualy abusing children in nursery.

What no one in favour of male workers in nurseries has been able to do is satisfactorily justify the hugely increased risk, particularly at a time when paedophiles are actively taking advantage of the push to have male workers in nurseries.

They have networks online, advising each other on how to secure jobs at nurseries, how to groom the staff, parents, and children, and how to abuse without getting caught.

I find it impossible to believe that any of the stated 'benefits' of having male nursery workers justifies the massive increase in the risk of babies and toddlers being raped.

If men are upset by that, then that's too damn bad. I feel like minimising the risk of children being raped should take priority over men's feelings. It's shocking to see that so many mothers are eager to gamble with their children's lives.