To be seriously concerned about sending DS to nursery given news today?

I am too old to have nursery age children, but would think that in this day and age there should be permanent CCTV in all nursery areas. Passing an enhanced security check only proves an abuser hasn't been caught yet, not that they are not an abuser.

Not many women do this, men having a near monopoly on paraphilias. Also not sure some women who have been convicted of SA are actually women and not transwomen.

I think a nursery is preferable over a childminder. At least at a nursery you’ve got other people watching. However, if you can possibly keep him out of nursery until he’s older I’d do that. Dd was nearly three before she went to nursery

Hey, my child is in a bright horizons nursery just outside of London. We’ve had nothing but an amazing experience. Low staff turnover, a long standing manager, one male staff member who is amazing and constant updates and support with any anxiety or queries we had. I know it’s scary but for bright horizons alone there are 8,500 staff across the UK, so when you think of those stats it’s pretty low risks. I has a heart attack today as all parents got an email from the bright horizons MD about the case. But my husband reassured me that our little man runs in and runs out happy every day and has done for two years. On our road alone there has been 20 children in this nursery so there’s a close group of parents and none of us have had any concerns with safeguarding.

Go with your gut on the nursery you’ve chosen. Keep asking questions, tell them you’re an anxious heap and what can they do to reassure you, talk through policies.

be kind to yourself, it’s a scary time but just remember these stories are isolated in comparison to the bigger picture and while that doesn’t take away from the devastation they are built on, it might comfort you in your worries.

I wasn't keen on our childmimder as they're there by themselves - {and also couldn't give me sufficient notice for holidays).

The real numbers, although still very small, will be significantly higher than we know. There will always be more people doing the crime than doing the time.

Perhaps look to find a nanny share? I think there will be other parents like you rethinking their nursery place at the moment. A nanny-share is such a good option for everyone involved I don't really know why they haven't regained the popularity they had pre-Covid.

I bet this particular chain Bright Horizons has the best and tightest safeguarding policies in place now, as a result of this news.

Probably the safest nursery chain around currently, sadly.

@Bushmillsbabe Not sure if that was mentioned. However there can be delays in getting the enhanced ones done. If the nursery followed the legal requirements, they did. I’ve no doubt it will jolt other nurseries.

If anyone remembers we were all upset when a head killed herself after ofsted found safeguarding errors. The case today illustrates why it matters.

My 2 children - one went to a large/converted house with small team nursery.
The other went to Big Chain nursery.

The Big Chain was by far the better managed and led one. Run by a consistent, small team. Being gpart of a chain I think meant they had more training opportunities and more incentives to stay and better pay offering from the odd job advertised to cover maternity leave!

The small homely nursery had the highest staff turnover. 4 managers in 2 years. My child has about 8 different key workers. So many apprentices, few actual qualifications. There was no consistency. No professionalism. And complaints. They didn't know how to manage complaints, period.

Everyone's experiences are so different.

Think of it a different way, how many children are in nursery? This case is so unusual it’s made headline news across the country. The fact it is headline news is reassuring that it’s so rare. You can apply this logic to many other things too. You need to make decisions that are right for your family but try to remember the millions of children in childcare without incident

The question can be asked 'how often do you do DBS, do they have auto renew'. Some may only do every 3 years to save money, places which place high importance will do yearly/have auto renew. Definitely not foolproof, but indication of how important they view it.

It’s absolutely upsetting, yes. But don’t be lulled into the false sense of security that strange men bad/friendly familiar men good.

The reality is that most children who are sexually abused are abused by someone trusted in their family or close social circle, not in school or nursery. You almost certainly have someone close to you who already has close supervised or unsupervised contact with your dc, or will in the future as he starts having play dates and birthday parties, who is a child sexual abuser. Statistically speaking, it’s inevitable. 1 in 6 children is sexually abused in their childhood. You will end up knowing those adults and they will end up being around your dc. Those are the ones you need to worry about.

Trust me, I never would have believed it if it hadn’t happened to me. One close family member arrested for sexually abusing a child in his family. It was horrific. Completely shook my trust in everyone I had around my dc. Through it all, I confided in another even closer family member. Found out several years down the line that her partner was also a convicted paedophile. He’d been using her to get close to children, including my own, and had abused others since (not mine, I’m very grateful). We are a completely normal family, no drama, no other criminals, all professionals, well respected in the community, and even we have 2 paedophiles. There no doubt are more I don’t know about, not to mention friends’ parents, neighbours, whoever. Those are the ones you need to worry about. Not the ones with a DBS and a safeguarding policy to adhere to.

I was about to call them, to ask them to break down the doors, when she arrived back. . With hindsight I wish I had called police, taken photos etc, but in the moment I just wanted to get her away from there

Most nurseries have cctv now so make sure you choose a nursery with cctv and no blind spots, including nappy changing areas. Ask questions about how often CCTV is checked, read the safeguarding policies, ask about safer recruitment, ask about their line working policies and whistle blowing policies. Make sure that they have walkie talkies so help can be sought without leaving a room (which can affect ratios). Make sure the DSL is up on safeguarding and has good working knowledge of the signs of abuse etc. some settings are just not open to the fact it could happen in their setting and you don’t want that. This fortunately is very very rare. I work as a LADO and have for 3 years and thankfully I have not encountered anything even remotely close to this with nurseries and I oversee all allegations against professionals in my LA.

The issue with DBS checks is that they pick up past crimes. They don’t pick up future crimes. How can they? Nurseries are inspected and no doubt have robust policies but staff need to be vigilent and whistle blow. The nursery probably followed safe recruitment protocols but people can easily circumvent these by either committing a first offence or not being caught. It’s very difficult to catch a perpetrator before they start offending.

98% of those convicted of child sexual abuse in the uk are men. There is a clear case not to have male members of staff in nurseries . However we seem to have a culture where men’s feelings are more important than child safeguarding.

You should have called police on your arrival
( I think I would have hospitalised the bitch)

I completely get that. I was just so shocked that when she returned I just grabbed my daughter and drove away.
With hindsight I wish I had taken photos as evidence as she told ofsted i was lying, but in the moment I just wanted to get her home and safe. She completely gaslit us, when we didn't pay the fees for the following weeks she sent us a bill with 'late fees', I explained why we wouldn't be paying and she pretended it didn't even happen.

I run an after school club and the negativity about my male staff member was awful. I get it, I’m not judging for that but I felt so bad for him as he had so many complaints about doing normal stuff, just because he was male and he ended up leaving. But still, it is generally men who do this kind of thing so I get why some are extra cautious

In my son’s nursery there are always more than 1 adult in the room (usually 3) and nappy changes are done in a corner in this room. I hope that this makes things safer, and that’s something you can look out for when viewing the nursery. (I wouldn’t use a childminder for the reason of her/and her husband being on her own with children in her home.)

Personally I’m thrilled my DS’ nursery has several male members of staff. Men are desperately under represented in childcare and primary schools and it is a real negative for young boys growing up.
our nursery has strong safeguards in place, recognised by a positive ofsted rating. I trust the team, men and women, as far as you can trust any other person and in particular I trust the measures they have in place to keep my son safe.
if you aren’t sure, ask them given the recent news how would you safeguard against something like that happening. They should be open, up front and confident in their answers.

Today’s news is absolutely horrendous but we have to remember it is an anomaly, not the norm. I send my DC to another north London nursery in the same chain and I have full faith in the leadership team there. They and their staff are utterly dedicated to the wellbeing and education of young children.

It’s horrific.
I don’t blame you for feeling so conflicted.
I visited 4 nurseries and then I chose the best one for my DS.

While we all worry about our children, and I suspect we do so until we die even if they're 60 by that stage, I don't really understand this angst. You do your risk assessment - you vvisit the nursery, you consider their policies and procedures, particularly around safe guarding and, if you're comfortable, you send your child.

Just like you do with making decisions on who to leave your child with in any other setting - Granny, aunts/uncles, babysitters etc.

There are risks out there. We can't avoid them all. All we can do is figure out the best way to mitigate those risks and reduce them. The reality is that abuse in nurseries is rare. It DOES happen But really, the far bigger risk in a nursery and something that's probalby far more common re issues like children not being changed frequently enough, or staff not paying sufficient attention to if the child has eaten/drunk enough etc.