To be seriously concerned about sending DS to nursery given news today?

How is this helping @SharpPinkDuck?

Did you read the part where I said 'men I don't know very well'? I trust my dad, my brother, my lifelong family friend, etc. I still wouldn't leave my girl alone with a new male step relative though, for example!

Woman are right to be wary of men. You only need to look at cases like Giselle Pelicot to understand why. I'm never going to feel bad about it 🤷 If men stop abusing and raping at the rates that they do, they may earn more societal trust.

I stand by what I said...I think the vast majority of women would not feel comfortable leaving their child with a male childminder.

Why would a childminder, where there are likely no other staff present and much less stringent rules in place than a nursery, provide a safer environment? I’d be much more concerned about my child at a childminders, you have no idea who she might have in the house during the course of the day.

OP, I get your concerns. You have to go with your gut on this one. I chose my son’s nursery as the staff were all female, highly experienced, and had wonderful publicly available reviews on individual members of staff, and importantly, was extremely secure. I knew there would be no randoms able to have access to my son.

He is thriving there, absolutely loves his key worker and is way ahead of his age developmentally, I think the nursery have played a big part in this.

Not on mumsnet - mostly the comments are very anti-SAHM.

Personally I would not be considering nursery for a child under 3. I’m not surprised you’re uncomfortable. My husband agreed and worked so much to allow this… he’d be doing 5/6 night shifts a week. Is there a way to jiggle things around so you can stay at home and take care of him?
If not, then I think you’re stuck really. Yes lots of childminders have their husbands around the childmindees. Only other option I suppose is a nanny. Unless you’ve got a grandparent around to help.

You are looking at reducing risk so no I wouldn’t use a nursery setting with a male worker. I also wouldn’t want to use a setting with a very high turnover of staff or a disproportionate amount of very young staff.

We didn’t have to use a nursery (other than school nursery) as a close family member is a childminder.

If choosing a childminder I would make sure you go to local playgroups that they attend to see how they interact with their children first before they know who you are. I was at these playgroups and could see within minutes the ones I wouldn’t have used for my kids.

Other than that I would say if possible - professional partner who is out of the house for most of the day, no male older children in the house, how is the person known in the community- what do other adults/peers think of them.

It’s just about reducing probability of risk. I know that you can’t reduce these risks to zero and there are people who ‘noone would suspect’ but there are also lots of signs for many too.

Of the people that have been later known to be a risk to children in our community over my lifetime there were signs. So in workplaces you need people with experience and a culture of being able to raise issues when something doesn’t feel right. Also these things tend not to happen in pockets - the childminder above that set off my spidey senses had fallen out with many neighbours, fractured family situation with people estranged, generally known as not a good and warm person and then issues with children she was minding (not SA)

So you think all parents should treat their own sons as child abusers?

Because you have just said you don't trust any men.

Should all fathers be banned from contact with their own children?

Just curious about your views.

You can get help for your anxiety.

If you believe all men are a danger to children, when do you plan to sit down with your own son to tell him he is going to turn into a child abuser?

Have you thought about what you will say to him?

Will you just come right our and say it, or will you try to justify it first.

If you have other children, will you allow your son to be around them?

What about his father?

Or.do you mean not all men?

…and for everyone saying ‘I do work part time around the children / DP’ and are playing the 16 hour game to maximise benefits rather than needing to childcare you really should not be guilt tripping parents who have been brought up with a different value system of providing for their family themselves.

Lots of guilt tripping on here for parents who are choosing to use paid childcare when they have children and return to work.

I do hope those who are saying that ‘they would never have anyone else look after their child’ were completely self funded financially as SAHP and (with the exception of child benefit) we’re not in receipt of housing benefits, disability payments etc which facilitated them ‘choosing’ to stay home.

I also would expect them to be in a stable long term relationship and therefore never be introducing a new partner to their young and vulnerable children.

I am all for ‘choice’ but a choice to be a SAHP should not be a government benefit funded one. Benefits should be those who really need help to support disability not a lifestyle choice.

Human babies and toddlers are just incredibly fragile. I would not leave them with others unless I had absolutely no choice. Yanbu.

not the same as an unknown male. Obviously

I would avoid nurseries with men 🤷 it's just fact that something like 95% of sexual crimes against children are committed by men. I don't want my pre-verbal child in a situation where she is alone with a man I do not know very well, period. Yes children are more likely to be abused by someone they know, but, like...would many people really feel comfortable leaving their child with a male childminder, for example?

I worked with someone ages ago now, who also had a part time job s a church organist.He had learned to play the organ as a young teenager and claimed he had been sexually abused by his organ tutor, a much older man.He had reported this man to his mother but she ignored him saying she did not believe him.He got alarmed when he heard that a co-worker was sending her 8 year old daughter to piano lessons with this man and informed her to never leave her daughter alone with him.The lady replied that either her or her husband always stayed in the room in case something ''funny''happened.
My work mate later found out that this man was the organist in a local church, and had been arrested for child abuse.

This isn’t about risk. It’s about the level of control you feel you have over the risk.

Whenever you read about a child dying in a house fire, or a a car accident, or indeed domestic abuse do you feel you should give up driving your children anywhere, or sleeping while your children are in the house, or living with your spouse?

The answers is generally no, because you feel you have control over how you drive, or how safe your home environment is for your child, and YOUR chosen spouse isn’t the child abusing kind, so you’re happy you have control over the risk, and terrible things happening to other children don’t impact you.

The heightened risk awareness issue with, for example, abuse in child care settings is not that it might happen (it’s very, very unlikely) but that you have no control at all over whether or not it does happen - it’s a risk you can’t moderate or mitigate by your behaviour.

So, you try to introduce some level of control - by, for example, proposing restrictions about who is allowed to be near your children in these settings. The fact that these make a tiny risk into a slightly tinier risk isn’t really important - the thing that makes you feel better is that you feel you have asserted some control over the risk level.

but this innate inability to measure risk effectively by parents is no reason at all to restrict 50% the population from an entire section of employment (and indeed wider social participation - if men can’t work in nurseries, they can’t work with small children at all…)

I would have avoided nurseries with male staff too, i have to be honest. I know females can also be vile, but Its just a personal preference.
I found a montessory type nursery that had CCTV in their rooms and only 1 parent/carer per child was able to access the cameras & only during the hours/days their child was in. It had multiple levels of security to access. It was such a comfort to me to be able to log in and see my child safe & sound either in the garden or in the room.
There was a room on the side where children were taken to get changed or use the potty/toilet (with no camera obviously) so no worries about privacy in that aspect either. I also really liked that the nursery used an app that was updated in real time every time a nappy change/potty session was attempted/completed so there was a window when they wouldn’t be visible on camera, but it was peace of mind because you could account for it. And the door was half height for privacy but it meant staff were never ‘behind closed doors’ from other staff at any given time.
I recommend trying to find a nursery with a secure camera system and similar set up. I also advise you go with your gut instinct. A smaller more intimate nursery is better than a huge nursery setting I think. Meet the staff and talk about your concerns and worries. They won’t be offended, they will be equally horrified by the shocking news too and expect parents anxieties. You’ll know if it feels genuine and they put you at ease. I think building a great report with the people trusted to keep your child safe, is also a huge factor.

These horrific cases make the news because they are rare. You can never eliminate all danger to your child while they are out of your care but there are thousands of nurseries and childminders and the vast majority are taking good care of the children they look after, whether the staff are male or female.

You have to remember your response is irrational and brought on by shock and fear. If the news was that a child was abused by their grandad, people wouldn't stop children seeing their grandads. I work in a nursery and I can't speak for anywhere else but the children get excellent care there. In theory I guess an abuser could deceive us but your dh or brother in law could deceive you too. There is just no point in dwelling on it. No matter where you go or what you do there is an element of risk so best to just rise above it and hope your DC will be OK in life.

It’s perfectly reasonable to have anxiety around the safety of your children when they’re not with you.

When I was first exploring options I remember visiting one of the few childminder’s with spaces available & I immediately observed signs that caused me to question safety . I decided it was safer to have my babies in a place where there were more workers around. Eventually we found a nursery that welcomed parents to drop in & we spent time getting to know the nursery staff. We also had a selection who we would hire for babysitting at home as they knew our children really well.

Childminders with older children of their own was a concern for me. Much later I recalled a school friend whose mother was a childminder; my friend had disclosed to me that she was repeatedly fending off her teenage brother’s attempts to SA her. They were an incredibly conservative acting family.

I recall many cases of SA of and by family members — in the 80s it was an open secret.

The vast number of family child protection cases are not reported in the news unless it results in death — while SA in childcare or education settings dominate the news cycle resulting in the persistent misrepresentation of the issue as a whole.

I think you just have to decide what's best for you for now given your anxiety. you can chose to move if they hire a man, you can keep her home and not work yet, you can see if DH is able to reduce his hours go look after DC etc. there's no real right or wrong answer.
but the reality is it's very rare, it isn't the place children and most at risk and being verbal doesn't mean children are able to tell.

I completely understand where you're coming from. Right before I returned to work after DC1 a baby had died at nursery and I was distraught at the idea of sending him in.

I pushed through and he's been absolutely fine, aside from endless colds and bugs.

Abuse is rare enough that you kind of have to take the risk, unless you're willing to stay at home until they go to school.

FWIW I also prefer a nursery to a childminder, not least because people I don't know can't just pop round for a visit.

You'll sadly find abusers in all walks of life. Childminders, nursery staff, male and female. There is nothing wrong about deciding that one setting or one type of setting or one gender of person makes you feel safer than another, provided you recognise that that is your choice and not something that's universally right, if that make sense. Also be aware that a nursery could take on a male worker AFTER your child was enrolled, and they would be ok to do that.

All the recent cases of abuse in nurseries has been caught on CCTV.

Defend their choice? Some of us don’t have a choice, just remember that.

We didn’t send ours until they were pretty fluent for just that reason.
Is that a feasible option?
That said, I was probably overly anxious and the overwhelming majority of nursery nurses are good people who care.