To get him the bare minimum for Christmas?

It sounds as though no matter what people say on here you're not able or willing to hear them or accept that almost every single response has said exactly the same thing which is no coincidence.

My heart breaks for this wee boy. I've worked with youngsters like this and the behaviour is a symptom of his pain and distress.

I genuinely fear for this boy. Teenage male suicides are a real problem and I pray that you and your son stop being so cold, judgemental, heartless, unforgiving and unwilling to address the elephant in the room which is his undoubted trauma.
Please find some love and compassion for this lad and help him, love him and support him as a family should.

Poor kid.

All behaviour is communication. He has no mum, sounds like he doesn’t see his dad often. The boy is crying out for attention.

I don't know why you're asking here when you've already made your mind up.

So you were paying for private school, but despite not having that to pay for anymore you won’t pay for counselling for your grandson as you see it as a waste of money. You also don’t want to buy him Xmas presents. I suspect you deeply dislike him from the way your posts come across, and resent the fact you are having to parent him - yet weirdly you don’t seem to be angry at your son for putting you in this position - your anger is all directed at your grandson who had absolutely no say in any of this.

You haven’t answered any questions about the boys mother. Is she alive? If she is, what is the reason for her having no contact with her son? This could be extremely relevant to his behaviour…

You say your grandson said his dad hit him and you were worried SS would believe him because he had bruises but you were certain he was lying. Where did he get those bruises? How certain are you his dad didn’t hit him? Was there any domestic violence with his mother? Or accusations of it? Your GS misogynistic attitude is coming from somewhere, and maybe it started with what he saw at home?

How old was he when his parents separated? How long has it been since he saw his mum? How many days a week is he supposed to be stopping at his dads?

Ultimately, he needs someone to step up and parent him. If you can’t do this, you should never have agreed to have him live with you when his dad is at work. His dad should be looking for any job that would enable him to be at home with his son, and working with him to fix these behaviours and attitudes. Do you have a partner? If so, what are they doing to help you with your GS?

As for Xmas, you don’t need to buy him a new phone - but you don’t need to just buy a Lynx gift set and be done either. He needs to feel loved. At the minute he feels like an inconvenience.

Poor kid. So his mum gave up on him for whatever reason, his dad is effectively doing the same and his gran really doesn’t like him very much.

He needs help, not condemnation, before he’s a lost adult.

@op Maybe think about how fiercely protective and defensive you are about your own son, and how much you love him. It comes across in all your posts. Nothing wrong with this, it’s not a criticism.

Now consider that your grandson doesn’t have this. No one is advocating for him. No one really properly cares.

This should not have fallen to you, and responsibility needs to go back to his parents. His parents need to be the kind of parent you are to your own child. If his parents loved him as you love your child, his situation would likely be very different.

Can on to say the same ,but this puts it very well .. totally agree

Well, he's basically an orphan with no stable adult or role model in his life, left to his own devices - unrestricted Internet usage, porn, risky sexual behaviour, drinking and gaming. Nobody has parented him really or put any boundaries, so he is who he is. No adult has ever been really interested in parenting him. He is at that age when he needs stable male role models who actually spend active time with him.

@JollyStreet maybe think about how fiercely protective and defensive you are about your own son, and how much you love him. It comes across in all your posts. Nothing wrong with this, it’s not a criticism.

Now consider that your grandson doesn’t have this. No one is advocating for him. No one really properly cares.

This should not have fallen to you, and responsibility needs to go back to his parents. His parents need to be the kind of parent you are to your own child.

Poor kid. Neither of his parents want him and it doesn't sound like grandma does either. Yes his behaviour is terrible, but that's really not surprising given the circumstances. It all sounds a lot like a cry for attention.

I know you say you don't want to hear suggestions of your son raising his own child, but that is what I'd needed. Yes it doesn't fit with his current job, but no job should take priority over his childs wellbeing. Jobs come and go but you only get one childhood.

I used to work with teens like this, including boys who fit this exact description. Beneath it all they were in a state of anxiety and emotional distress, severely disconnected from their parents/caregivers. It manifests as aggression and defiance, pushing people away, etc. But really they are trying to mask a deep sense of vulnerability and low self esteem.

You have received a lot of good advice on here and it would be such a shame if you still thought that asking your grandson why he's acting like this (a question he won't be able to answer) and dishing out punishments is a suitable way of dealing with this.

You (and most importantly his dad) need to be exploring the root cause of his distress, such as his possible feelings of vulnerability, low self esteem and rejection, and working on strategies to make him feel more emotionally secure. I know it's incredibly hard, but it is your responsibility as the one constant adult in his life to be his cheerleader.

Do you have time to warn him if he doesn't buck his ideas up he will not be getting a lot for Xmas? At least then he has a warm up to it and you won't blame yourself x I feel for you as no one likes the idea of not treating someone at christmas but in this case it may just reinforce his bad behaviour x and if he doesn't improve it's not that you won't get him anything he just won't be spoilt or treated xx

So you haven't listened to anything anyone's said....

How many times does everyone have to write that clearly he’s incredibly unhappy, he doesn’t like himself, he doesn’t feel loveable so he’s not going to care how he behaves and if the rest of the world, including friends dislike him. He’s got parents who to him don’t appear to love him, want him around or like him, he won’t care if the rest of the world doesn’t. Asking him will do nothing. He doesn’t understand himself, he’s not got the emotional intelligence to even know where to begin. Every negative thing against him just confirms his deep underlying feelings that he’s the problem.

I’m far from a soft touch and every post I read that you write I just think this poor kid has no one believing in him or loving him, literally just constantly showing him that everything he feels deep inside is true.

This...

It sounds an absolutely miserable situation, for all of you. he really needs some stability and a constant in his life, your son could do with a more stable job as the poor boy is just being pushed from pillar to post.

If my son were behaving like this, I would be worried sick about him and doing everything in my power to get to the bottom of it. He sounds bitterly unhappy and very angry. He needs professional support. I don’t think what you do or don’t buy him for Christmas is going to move the dial at all.

Ok I'm a bleeding heart, but that poor boy.

He needs killing with kindness, not this.

"The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth"

I'm sorry but the way you talk about him and his relationship with his dad makes this poor boy sound unloved. I sympathise with you for having to manage his challenging behaviour on your own, but behaviour is communication after all.

Your grandson is deeply hurt/angry about something and needs support. Yes, it's tough if he's unwilling to engage with professionals, but maybe start with small changes at home. Do you ever praise him, or act pleased to see him? Tell him that you love him? Take notice of his interests? See through his behavioural problems?

Try to emphasise his good qualities (even if you have to use your imagination here). Communicate to him that you think he's a good person and that you are happy to have him in your life/home (even if that's not always true) and that you will always be there for him. Given that he doesn't have much contact with either of his parents, he might feel rejected, insecure, and as though he is inherently 'bad', so is acting the part.

I cannot express enough how irreparably damaging it would be to use Xmas as a punishment. You will make him spiral further.

I’m getting a little confused with the relationship between your son and grandson. Did your son hit grandson? Grandson is currently refusing to stay at his dad’s?

if this is the case you are literally the only safe standard in grandsons life, yes he’s acting out, he has no one he feels he can trust. You give a long list of things he has done wrong and this is your focus, to punish with soap for Christmas. Have you got any support yourself. Do you want to try and help him through this.

You have bigger things to worry about than Christmas presents.

It sounds like there's a huge backstory and his behaviour to me seems like a reflection of past trauma.

What has happened to him? Where is his mum?

No one really seems to have provided him with any stability in his life.

Does he have friends who have been in his life long-term? Or did he lose all his friends with the school move?

He doesn't have strong parental relationships, he doesn't have a stable home, he doesn't have educational stability, he feels like a nuisance and he's receiving a constant message of not being good enough.

Where is the nurture?

If I sat down and wrote myself a manual on how to mess up my child, I might include a lot of this.

You all need to start seeing his life through his eyes and think about how you can help him to make it better.

This ☝️

He's being blamed but noone is looking or asking why he's acting up, there will be a reason.

He's been passed about and noone seems to approve or properly care about him or what he does.

The adults need to sort themselves out and communicate with the child or if they can't, which seems very likely then find someone that he can talk to. Take responsibility for him for goodness sake