To get him the bare minimum for Christmas?

You should let your son know you will give the private school money to him, say 1k per month to offset lower income from another job, say self employed taxi driving where he picks his own hours, and can be present at mornings and evenings. You could have grandson at weekends so son could pull in extra shifts then, should he need to.

By moving the financial support so that your son can be more present for your grandson, you will make a really deep impact on outcome

The mother is clearly not interested so your comment is unhelpful.

Would you tell a single mother that the child needs his deadbeat dad? The sentiment on here is usually the opposite and that all contact needs to be cut.

There is a desperately unhappy and vulnerable little boy underneath this gangly teenage bravado.

I feel so sad for this child, he has no one in his corner who cares enough (or perhaps is emotionally mature enough) to understand and support this.

Raising a child is a little bit like training a dog, if you dont get it right from the very start it ends up expensive and damn near impossible to fix the behaviour problems without significant effort.

You will just keep sniping at him, he'll end up a train wreck. And around the circle goes again.

I don’t know you, your family or how you really feel, and I wouldn’t normally comment on threads like this….but this has made me really upset.
He’s acting this way as he is very distressed most likely….and then you say on top of that as a punishment that you’ll deliberately give him a shitty Christmas?
That won’t make him reflect “on the error of his ways” it will likely make him feel and act even worse
However hard it is he needs nurturing and someone, anyone, to be really kind. I know kindness doesn’t = lots presents, and goodness knows you are trying, and you probably are very kind to him and at the end of your tether.
But please just hold your frustration on this one and don’t give him a terrible Christmas out of frustration, it won’t work.
Keep the faith, keep kind and you’ll win through.

Yep. Exactly this. He's just viewed as a problem child. He needs some kind of mental health input by the sounds of it and some positivity in his life

Also is there a reason he is misbehaving at school such as dyslexia, bad ache sight or something like that? Has he gotten so far behind with his studies that he is lost but embarrassed to ask for help?

It sounds to me like your grandson needs firm boundaries but also lots of love and stability. I think you or his dad need to pay for private help, would joint family therapy be something you can consider so you can all talk openly?

Can his father reach out to his mother to re establish contact between them? How involved is his dad in sorting this out? I can see why your grandson is hurt, his mum wants nothing to do with him and his dad works away and doesn’t seem to be doing much. He probably feels the world hates him.

Do you do much as a family? Has his dad genuinely stepped up or just left it to you?

I would look at getting your grandson into an activity to give him some consistency, confidence building and discipline like the air or army cadets or even scouting. Having access to a phone, pocket money or Wi-Fi would be contingent on him attending and not getting into trouble there, attending therapy and behaving at school. At the same time I would be increasing the time you spend together as a family whilst giving him some options as to what you all do and take an interest in him.

I think he needs to feel loved at Christmas and on his birthday. Some people use these occasions as a weapon and the golden opportunity for punishment and to make a point, but I think it will actually do more harm than good and you won’t be thanking yourself for it.
If he’s in a bad place then a rubbish Christmas orchestrated by you, will just push him further down and it will be a never ending vicious cycle for him.

You actually have the opportunity to make him happy and try make Christmas a really positive time for him, and you want to use it as a way to punish him. I know which I would choose.

My son is 14. He’s been suffering, he’s refused to go to school. He’s been acting out at home. Everyone around me kept telling me to punish him and ostracise him and not make a fuss of him on his birthday and Christmas. I was like no way.
If I’d have followed their ways then he I think he would be in a much worse place than where he is now. I wanted to make it known to him that he is still worthy of enjoying things, which is actually a key way of helping him out of the bad place he is in. If everything is negative negative negative then he will be negative negative negative. It’s always so rewarding when my son smiles at me and comes in to the room to talk to me. I know we’re slowly making progress and I think that is partly down to me never being harsh on him when he was at his worst.

You say his dad has full custody, but he doesn't does he @JollyStreet ? He is not there half the time. As a pp pointed out, that just wouldn't be an option for a single mum.

Noting will change unless the people around him change.

My suggestion, if your son has any care for his son at all, is your son leaves his job and moves in with you for the moment. He has 4 years until his son is legally an adult, only 4 short years!

Can you explain a bit more about his mum? It seems like this boy really needs her.

Honestly OP, your DS needs to focus on getting a different job so he can live full time with his son. No, your DGS’s behaviour won’t transform overnight, but his dad needs to be around to help work things out.

Your DGS is on a path that he needs help steered away from. But it will take a lot of love and good parenting. No it won’t be easy, and it might be too late to repair things but your DGS deserves the effort.

Christmas presents aren’t the question here (but no, don’t deliberately punish him by getting him shit presents).

This is a very troubled boy who is struggling, and who comes from a clearly difficult up bringing; having seen similar with my brother, I would strongly advise you not to engage in this petty behaviour of trying to make him miserable at Xmas. But treat him with love, show him he’s cared about, and continue to try to foster a good relationship with him.

hes got shit parents, who have both failed him. Don’t you show him the apple didn’t fall far from the tree and you’re the same.

Things won’t change until the adults in his life start the process to getting him proper help and support but it sounds like nobody wants to do that so he is going to become another statistic of a child who has been failed who then becomes a very troubled adult getting into trouble.

Your son needs to take responsibility here.
Imagine if this was a single mother. Would she take a job whereby her child was left endlessly? I doubt it.
He needs to seriously look for another job, take a pay cut. What about warehouse work- long hours but he won’t be away from home. This is your son’s responsibility. Boys learn how to become adults from their male role models and quite frankly your son isn’t doing a good job. We would all like to have had someone else help parent our difficult children but most women don’t get that luxury.
School will have their hands full with plenty of unruly teenagers and I feel for the staff having to deal with private schools cast offs. They are trying to teach not babysit pupils.
You need to tell your son that he parents his son. Calmly and rationally. Not shouting etc. install boundaries and stick to them. Parenting is hard work. They need to do things together.
Why are you doing your son’s shopping? Is he 5? Stop now. Make him do it. Again look at the example your grandson is seeing. Men are far too important to deal with that crap. Women are subservient so it’s down to them.
Tell your grandson when he stays with you it’s on your terms. The next time he is rude tell him to stop. Tell him you will not be spoken to like that. Tell him he is not getting nice things until he shows respect.
Most of all do not make empty threats. If you say something then be prepared to follow it through. Turn the WiFi off if you have to.
Your grandson needs clear, firm boundaries. Start with just a couple of things. Choose wisely the hill you are prepared to die on.
I was told this: all children respect boundaries. That is true.

He is going through a lot, he is 14, he needs something positive to focus on. He isn’t coping in school. You son needs to understand that his Dad’s job is a good but difficult one. Can his Dad take him on the Truck and show him what it is like?

Not when the child is stealing it and drinking it.

dont have alcohol?
that is a bit extreme

Offer counselling again, don't take that offer off the table even if he didn't engage the first time.
That said, if he attended, he still engaged to a degree, even if he just sat there. It might go different this time.

So he lived with his mum until 10 and then had supervised contact for a while and now doesn't see his mum at all?

You seem to be unable to put two and two together op, so let us try and help you. Would you say your grandsons behaviour problems started when he stopped seeing his mum? Was the private school a new school once he was taken from his mum? Why is there no contact with his mum now?

If you want to help solve this issue, then you need to see that your grandson is obviously hurting form not having his mum in his life. He feels abandoned and is acting out.

It doesn't matter who caused what or why she's not in his life, he obviously isn't happy that he doesn't see her and is lashing out.

Can you look at contacting his mum? Would she want contact with him?

Have you even tried to get his mum back in his life?

Don’t blame the school for not having good pastoral staff, the problem is your grandson. And the problem probably stems from his upbringing. Don’t pass the buck.
And no, you shouldn’t have alcohol in your house, ever.

what has he asked for for Christmas?
and what is his dad going to get him?
instead of being with you not at school could his dad take him in the truck one day so they can talk?
perhaps if he sees a day in the life of a HGV driver he might get interested in that as a job or think god no I want to do something else and hit the school books?

what sort of jobs is he interested in?

It’s difficult to know who to give that if he throws back he will phone social services if you try and talk to him

How about getting him membership to a gym or something for Christmas? Don’t just get one let him choose (and they might have good January deals)

Somewhere he could perhaps go, with positive male role models, get him out of his room, and channel some of his anger into exercise.

He may or may not sit exams, if he isn’t going to school and isn’t going to revise he won’t pass many, if any, I would look at colleges that do resit courses.

You as a family need something to break this pattern and I think you need outside help - you might find this in a gym, perhaps phone a few or ask for recommendations via Facebook - give a brief outline of what you are looking for or message directly.

he needs more care, more love, rather than less

This thread is so desperately sad.

We all know you are in an awful, really difficult position but you’re not taking anything from the thread at all and are still fixated on his behaviour rather than acknowledging the reasons behind it and asking advice on a way forward for him.

How many of the posts on this thread are you reading, OP? You seem to keep fixating on the same things, while so many of us are advising you to look at the bigger picture.

I agree with PP that you don't seem very receptive to advice or different points of view. So I do wonder why you started the thread