Newly trained doctors-you need to know this

No this is factually incorrect

Well good luck to her an awful lot of money wasted on becoming a doctor hope she pays it back

https://www.nursinginpractice.com/latest-news/applications-to-uk-nursing-programmes-hit-record-low/ The government needs to do more to make nursing careers attractive, pay being a major factor. Furthermore stop putting junior staff at the forefront of care and put qualified registered nurses there. Studies have been done to say if the registered nurse to patient is more than 1 to 6, the death rate rises on the ward. qualitysafety.bmj.com/content/32/5/254 Is the latest in a long line of studies. And in my opinion get rid of titles such as Matron, to grades of nurse manager, so men can be attracted to the profession, to make a more equal workplace . all staff who come to the ward have to undertake the care certificate to instill values of person centred care, dignity choice. To enroll on the TNA program learners have to complete a level 3 diploma in healthcare which again cover the values expected in nursing.
i see first hand these attitudes of distrust of overseas nurses, affecting frontline care from dedicated healthcare assistants and nurses. I believe that anyone who has the guts to step up to attempt to help another human needs to be supported, no matter where they are from.

And yet they managed to employ 20,000 overseas doctors last year whilst simultaneously leaving 48% of British trained FY2s unemployed - despite in theory there being enough training places for nearly all of them.

Stop with the racism accusations. My Father was an immigrant and spoke a decent level of English but his accent was very heavy, DH really struggled to understand him sometimes and did others. In times of stress people need clear communication.

My late husband who had Parkinson’s - quadruple heart bypass - I simply couldn’t understand a word the doctor said he wasn’t English and gabbled away at a speed it was impossible to understand my husband was hospitalised many times I couldn’t understand a word and said I needed to speak to a person who could actually speak English I feel if people are in the NHS should at least speak English

Agree. When there was the case of a British based Palestinian doctor suspended earlier this year for anti semetic posts on SM, it made me wonder about how potentially dangerous a situation could become, whereby she was treating someone Jewish. Would her beliefs affect what treatment she provided that person with? It’s really a myth perpetuated by those on the left that without immigration we would be screwed because we need doctors and care workers. We have enough trained doctors coming through, and we have enough people to fill health care posts if we reform the Welfare system to get people back to work. I hope your DSS gets a post OP without the need for him to go abroad. We need good quality doctors not someone coming in with a Mickey Mouse certificate from a country with low standards of training.

Thanks for explaining, what a cock up indeed!

One key point youre missing.

You’re comparing training posts with all qualified doctors from an immigration perspective.

Your many of those will be going into roles your relative isn’t qualified for.

Although I do agree, I can’t understand why visas are issues for training program places.

The training more I think is fairly new. I can remember the tories cutting doc training places, against the medical council's advice' because it saved money. They knew it was cheaper to have overseas staff in and they were advised that in about 10 years there would be a shortage of docs as they retired or moved away - we're at that stage now. I think now the NHS just can't afford to hire docs, despite being so badly needed. Thanks our governments!

The same tories cut bursaries for nurses, midwives, radiographers etc and the numbers applying dropped but they again, relied on foreign staff. I believe a bursary of some sort for nurses is back but not 100%.

The whole lot has been royally mucked up and they knew what they were doing and simply didn't care.

Not necessarily that academic with doctors though. I was quite shocked to see how low A level results can be to get into medical schools in countries like Bulgaria. Or that you can be trained to be a doctor without speaking the local language - so never properly engaging with patients.

Indian medical and nursing schools traditionally followed a “British” style approach to education so yes, are generally better “prepared”. European nurses tend to hold similar cultural values.

There are problems with those coming from sub-Saharan Africa. They have huge corruption there whereby “agencies” can recruit basically anyone to get a visa to come and work in the UK caring sector.

These are places where for example, HIV rates are amongst the highest because women have no right to say no to sex with an infected partner. They practise FGM on young girls. They have some of the highest typhoid and other communicable diseases levels globally because they believe that demons are responsible for disease, not a lack of good hygiene.

Ask yourself this - would you want to be a patient in a hospital over there?

But yeah, let’s employ them in there 1000s to “care” for our vulnerable people.

I am also a frequent user of NHS due to my own ill health and my mothers. The last year I have had 4 stays in hospital and my mum has had 2.
i am not racist and I only speak as I find. My Indian consultant and surgeon was amazing and spoke English very clearly and was most articulate. I also had several Indian nurses care for me - again they were of a very high standard as were the Phillipinos . However, some of the Nigerian male nurses were imho quite misogynistic and I felt very vulnerable around them and they were not keen to answer the buzzer.
its very easy to accuse anyone who criticises the training and language skills of foreign medics of being racist but it’s far more nuanced than that in reality and cannot be remedied until people feel able to voice these concerns without being labelled as bigoted/ racist.

Would you not think it odd if, on a visit to, say, Poland, you needed healthcare and discovered that most or all of the medics were from overseas, maybe from Bolivia or Vietnam? No questions, concerns, curiosity as to how this situation had come about and whether the Polish people were ok with it?

Why do we have such a high proportion of immigrants as doctors if we have so many being trained here? I’ve had more interaction with the NHS than I’d have liked and from nurses up to the consultants through the process they were more often than not immigrants (all lovely by the way, not complaining about that directly but in the context of this thread).

I had 2 years of chronic pelvic pain due to having a 10lb cyst removed, I could barely walk. GP's and consultants keep giving me pain killers. Then finally was sent to a pain clinic, where fluke would have it, an amazing man who knew his stuff looked after me. 1st treatment took away 50% of my pain, then two more treatments took away another 40%. He gave me back my life and never met a kinder, or more 'human' doc in my life, he even had a great sense of humour and am getting on a bit!

He was also training other pain management teams, up and down the country, challenging the out of date method of NHS treatment, specialising in ladies pain and pain in the elderly. He was also training some 'back home', in Iran where he was from. I am grateful for him more an any other UK born doctor who just wanted to give me codeine or tramadol - which has been proven not to work anyway! There was no cultural differences coming into play with my treatment, what an odd thing to say.

The NHS would be lost without foreign workers, it would collapse overnight.

And this is why thousands of British young doctors are being left unemployed despite the huge debts they have incurred and the huge cost of their train8ng to the tax payer - because suggesting British qualified and resident doctors should prioritised over overseas applicants is met with cries of ‘Racism!’

All I can say is, I would willingly give my left arm to be seen by a decent gynae right now. So it’s beyond a joke that there isn’t “enough jobs” because there’s certainly enough need for it!
My close relatives husband trained as a pharmacist, because he knew jobs were scarce but he’s ended up doing a GPs job anyway and prescribing all sorts because he has the relevant medical training.
The whole thing is ass-backwards and we need less middle management and more people with actual medical training on the ground, in hospitals, pharmacies and GP surgeries!!

Yanbu
Its a fucking disgrace.

My friend is a consultant anesthesiologist. She told me about this recently.

she also told me her dept needs 4 more consultants but theres no funding for roles. So now... they pair operations and give registrars the easier ones in a theatre opposite the consultant who ostensibly "oversees" both 😵‍💫

My friend said its literally just a matter of time until people start dying.

The international applications are a problem too. One of her cpworkers was on shift whe it opened and by the time the shift finished it was closed for applications due to volume of applicants.

Theres no reason they cant or shpuldnt change this system and prioritise uk applicants

@Youdontseehow say that only a minority of good overseas nurse and carers are working. Are you including European trained nurses in that? It just seems unlikely to me that a majority of foreigners are poorly trained. Other countries have functioning health systems as well.

Most overseas nurses are from India and the Philippines. My experience is that they have excellent training.

There is nothing racist about prioritising UK doctors and nurses for jobs. They are a very racially diverse group.

Everyone should write to their MP about it. Mine didn't want to take my point on board. She agreed with me there should be more training places. That's true but not the main point. We could triple the training places and still not have enough if any doctor anywhere on the planet can apply for them on the same basis as the young people who already live here.

I worry that this nonsense and incompetence on the part of the government and wider establishment will help Nigel Farage get voted in. I fear he hasn't changed too much from the teenager who sang nazi songs and bullied jewish and asian classmates and we will get a facist and a racist as our next prime minister.

As a nurse, I’d say it is different with doctors though. A person has to be more academically clever to get into medicine in any country. Overseas doctors are also proportionately more likely to have come from a wealthier family and had a better education. They are less likely to hold extreme views such as a belief in witchcraft/demons affecting health and that FGM is a good thing.

The requirements for entry to nursing school are less and for carers, practically non existent. It’s seems anyone who can repeat the same old “I care” schpeel and become a carer in the UK and have access to some of our most vulnerable people.

”crowded crime-ridden country”
Another tedious generalisation, overall crime rates in the UK are falling, some parts of the UK may feel overcrowded especially in the SE but many aren’t. I accept this maybe the case where you live and I’m sorry you feel like this it must be awful but it certainly isn’t the case where I and many many others live.

Thank you for recognising this and explaining it better than me.

It's complete and utter lunacy, isn't it?