Newly trained doctors-you need to know this

I go for regular eye screening/treatment (diabetic) and not one of the Doctors in the department are English born, nor have a very good command of the English language. I've worked out that there is always a nurse present or HCA purely to translate for you. And there are many times when I've struggled to understand the information I'm being given.... usually at rapid speed. I hate to imagine how elderly patients manage.

I can only assume you have name changed from the other offensive race baiting threads that have run recently.
Your facts are completely wrong -12473 training jobs this year and many more non training jobs where you still get trained and learn.

This is race baiting and shall we wait for the physician assistant moan to start.

Competition is tough and always has been in medicien but the BMA did their own surbey and 40& of those residents surveyed did not bother to apply - in the words of the lottery - you do have to be in it to win it - if you did not apply you can not claim a foreign doctor took your post and it is unfair.

The strikes are tone deaf - strike for better training and a reduction in the exorbitant student loan interest rate for all students - then that would be sensible but demand a 25% pay rise as your head line then you are missing the point. REsident doctors are not paus 15 GBP per hour when they doa 44 hr week and get apid from 40-95K per annum.

We don’t need to criticise doctors from other countries. I certainly wouldn’t. We need to employ those doctors who have passed their medical training, at huge expense both to themselves and to the government.

We have a low ratio of Doctors to patients. Like everything else in the NHS is comes down to one thing money. The NHS was underfunded between 2009 and Boris Johnson become PM we have an expensive and aging population we are able to prolong life although not necessarily improve quality of life people have high expectations, the lack of social care is crippling the NHS (different government funding).
Contrary to what many believe according to the King’s Fund, the highly respected independent charity, the NHS is not over overrun with expensive managers bleeding it financially dry it’s underfunded across the board and the elephant in the room that no government of any persuasion want to address is social care and who funds it.

It is true, and it is bloody awful. Don’t forget those already in gap year after completing F2, who will also apply this year . Those responsible for medical training have badly fucked up, or it’s being done deliberately.

Yeah. But don't worry, time machines will be along, any moment now.

I think the real test is to check to see what Labour were saying about Tory policies, while Labour were in opposition.

Here is a sample from 2019 I randomly picked from the web.

Labour pledges extra funding in NHS ‘rescue plan’ | HFMA

Note this line here : The Conservatives have pledged to recruit an extra 6,000 GPs, but there are no details on the party’s planned funding for public health and training yet. "

So just in 2019, the Tories had no plans to fund training, but had promised another 6k GPs.

Where would these 6k GPs come from, if the government of the day had no plan to fund training?

I’m not invalidating anyone’s experience I’m detailing my very extensive experience which is equally valid.
it’s lazy and easy to generalise all overseas staff can’t speak English they are not as caring they are not a knowledgeable well trained etc. All white British staff are amazing caring outstanding communication skills dedicated and knowledgeable. This is not the case you get the good the bad and the ugly from ALL backgrounds nationalities.

The doctors strikes are not based on money... It is clearly one of the key strands given every time you see a BMA rep on the TV they mention it. The shortage is another, and I have more sympathy with that.

"In brief, it's about pay rises - the BMA is arguing that resident doctors - previously known as junior doctors - need a 26% pay uplift to restore their earnings, once inflation is taken into account." https://news.sky.com/story/why-doctors-are-on-strike-again-from-today-and-why-the-health-secretary-is-so-angry-about-it-13470026 14/11/25

*We have been clear that, following a 28.9% pay rise across three years for resident doctors, we cannot go further on pay this year." https://healthmedia.blog.gov.uk/2025/10/23/resident-doctor-strikes-everything-you-need-to-know/#:~:text=We%20have%20been%20clear%20that,roles%20to%20progress%20their%20careers. 23/10/25

I think the availability of trust grade jobs is very variable. Where I work they’ve been cut due to hiring freezes.

The NHS needs a massive revamp.
Its just not working.

I know dentists tend to go private because the earnings are massively different and it’s why we can’t get many NHS dentists.

I assumed healthcare was the same.
Why is it so difficult to get a gp appointment or takes 9 hours to be seen in A&E if we are overrun with doctors?
I thought the issue was not enough staff compared to patients.

Zero sympathy. The majority said immigration wasn’t an issue. Until, it has affected them.

I come into contacts with lots of carers many are from abroad. The one who all the patients and families sing his praises about the most is an African caring tidy dedicated hard working. Yup there are some crap ones out there but I also regularly visit care homes trust me I see at best sub standard care being delivered by local white people.
Do not generalise to suit your agenda. Caring is a shit job most are poorly paid work ridiculous hours often in very trying circumstances it’s emotionally and physically draining. The companies they work for regularly guilt trip them into working overtime paid at normal rates a 60-70 hour is common anyone who does it well regardless of background is nothing short of a saint and those saints come from many different parts of the world. Many carers come from parts of the world where elderly are shown a significantly higher degree of respect than that which the UK population show particularly on here. My dad (who was difficult to say the least) carer from India called him “Sir” and was exceedingly deferential and caring.
Most HCPs have worked with nurses from the Philippines virtually to a man/women they are hard working and very knowledgeable putting UK trained nurses to shame.
I’ve worked with African Chinese Indian Iranian doctors I could go so many are hard working knowledgeable and dedicated and most importantly caring many lack the arrogance still seen in some white British doctors. I’ve seen them pushing trolleys washing patients making then a cup of tea helping them into the commode.
Im not denying that there will be some rubbish ones out there but there are rubbish British doctors/nurses/physios/radiographers etc. The NHS is the fifth biggest employer in the world the biggest employer in Europe and the biggest employer of women in the world you cannot employ that many people and not have a variety of people with a variety of abilities. If people are not good at their job whatever their background then they need help and training to get better few are deliberately bad.

Most of us are trying our very best in a virtually impossible situation. It seems now that few have a good work for us this is exceedingly demoralising when so many of us go the extra mile every day.
As one doctor said during the covid epidemic “will you still clap for us when this is over?

@2020Raquet So we, the tax payer have paid an average of £250,000 to £327,009 to train these doctors over the past 7-9 years and 87% will not have a job.

This has likely been pointed out by other people, but just one point to add for consideration:

A not-insignificant minority of students in medical degrees are from overseas. So they come to the UK, obtain their degree, and then a large number of them will be leaving again.

Is there any reason why you feel so comfortable using a racist term against white people?

I imagine you’d have a different view about use of a perjorative racist term against any other group?

We can, it’s called having borders. Work visas can be issued or not.

Hi. I’m an f2 and whilst there is a huge problem with training posts, your numbers are very wrong. If you look at the competition ratios here medical.hee.nhs.uk/medical-training-recruitment/medical-specialty-training/competition-ratios/2024-competition-ratios

… there were 4600 posts in gp alone? Also the competition ratios are slightly misleading as people apply for lots of specialities not just one. These are to enter the first year and represent the training contracts. There are also lots of ‘trust grade’ jobs at every hospital, where you aren’t in training but you are employed for a year. And lots of clinical fellow jobs, especially in a&e. So 87% is a huge mis representation of the number. There are jobs, but in general yes entering training is a problem.

Why do you feel it acceptable to use a racist term?

Some specialties don’t even interview anymore. It’s done on a combination of written application and generic online multiple choice exam.

Nobody said ‘all’ though. But you seem to be invalidating people’s actual reported experiences with poor English standards in foreign nurses and doctors which in a high stress situation, just make everything worse.

Are you suggesting they are lying? Attitudes like this are part of the problem - people jumping straight to ‘it’s offensive’ ti even raise the topic.

I’ve recently had treatment with a foreign consultant and while he was very pleasant, I struggled to understand his strong accent and that made it so much harder to understand the large amounts of information he was rapidly telling me about my complex medical situation.

Surely if you are an experienced medical professional you would understand the importance of clear communication for patients?

When I was younger I was working as a research scientist on a series of 3 year contracts and looking for a permanent post. There were really good permanent posts available in France, but only French people were allowed to apply for them. I was blocked from applying, because I was a UK citizen. This is when the UK and France were both in the Schengen agreement on freedom of movement.

I wondered then why the UK was not allowed to reserve some posts for young UK scientists to progress in the UK.

I had to leave science because the government preferred to take scientists from overseas, even if their English was poor and they had no plan to stay.

I get that there may be reasons for this in science, but I don't see the reasons in Medicine. If France can make protected posts for their own citizens, why can't the UK do this?

I do think that having excellent native English and an understanding of British culture is important in medicine, and it makes sense to select candidates on this criterion.

Is it just because our government decided not to?

presumably communication skills are considered during the interview process

I think for most of us it’s a where you trained issue rather than where you came from. I’d prioritise a person from Tripoli for example who went to a UK medical school and has completed the UK foundation period vs a person from Birmingham who went to medical school and did their FY1 equivalent in Plovdiv.

Emigrate and never pay back the loans.

Simple.

Enough will.

Actually, it's during their training years that they have to move to a different hospital each year within the deanery. That is irrespective of where they live, whether they are married or not and living in their own house or whether they have children or not.

I did mention in my post what the real issue with Dr training is.

And I made no mention t gammon demographics. So I can't see where , quote: " (nice bit of ageism and classism there, btw)", comes from.

What communication problem am I ignoring. I have not mentioned anything about communication, anywhere on this thread. So I have no idea where accusations of me being "ableist and ageist" is coming from.

I do however admit I am a bit " gammonist", if there is such a word.