Newly trained doctors-you need to know this

The problem is the lack of training places. Not enough. This means trainee uk doctors not being able to train. It also means not enough trained doctor so need to recruit trained doctors from abroad.

ludicrous.

I thought that a big reason why there aren’t enough NHS job vacancies is because the government doesn’t fund the NHS enough? Isn’t that a factor? We all feel it’s harder to get an appointment nowadays (eg for seeing a GP, or us being on a long waiting list to see a consultant) - if the government put the funding there for paying more doctors then there would be more roles for medical graduates to apply for, plus patients would be happier.
(I’m happy to be corrected /explained to by
someone who knows more about this than my simplistic knowledge!)

Its terrible this is happening. Its a total lack of joined uo thinking. We literally are forcing our 'brightest and best" to leave the country.

Our whole policy should be about growing and retaining talent within this country. Not stealing doctors from poorer countries that most likely need to keep them.

It is true. Doctors no longer want their kids to do medicine.

Well I can only speak from experience, two deliveries, cancer, continuing issues with eye and scan surveillance means I’m in hospital 4+ times/year. All the nurses have problems speaking clearly, the radiographers are all home-grown so no language issues, all the doctors non-fluent and hard to communicate with. Ao my LIVED EXPERIENCE is that it is highly stressful situation made far more stressful because of the communication issue. That is my experience and to tell me to shut ip is patronising.

Best doctors I've encountered recently were not UK trained, which meant they weren't institutionalised by the NHS culture. They were paying close attention, interested in learning about the whole patient, not just their area of focus, and took responsibility. Our training system may be the envy of the world but I really don't know why when I see the results. And the problems are much more about culture and attitudes than lack of funding, and that cuts right through the NHS.

@MikeRafone this sounds like a clear assessment of the situation, thank you

Irrelevant. Answer the question.

Yes, this.

When the medical school place your DSS was created, and for most of his studies, the tories were in charge.

Labour could make improvements but it will take some years to filter through.

Even if you’re right, it simply creates a career progression bottleneck elsewhere

It hasn’t been caused by this government.

The medics we are importing (drs and nurses) are often from countries that can ill afford to lose their medical staff. Thing is though - it means they object less. My sister is a physiotherapist of 40yrs experience. She lived in Jersey for 8 yrs, came back and no NHS vacancies so she worked at a private hospital. Now she has been trying for 5-6 yrs to get back into NHS but they won’t take ex-private. On the other hand, they are happy to import. Almost half NHS staff are not home-grown, yet we have a graduate employment crisis.

Ok this is obviously bad that medics that the taxpayer has helped train can’t find a position, but your post lacks a vital detail.

Of the 20,060 immigrant medics, how many of them are newly qualified doctors that would be competing directly with you SS for a position?

What planning related to those part way through degrees in medicine do you think they have been able to do in just over a year?

Agreed. I’m sure foreign doctors are clinically good but as a patient it can be really stressful trying to communicate with someone whose English isn’t fluent - that goes for nurses etc too.

Generally this government is really crap at workforce planning aren't they?

Is anyone else waiting for the usual suspects on the resident doctor threads to appear and resume their squabbling?

I had understood that Streting knows the problem and had offered to fix it by giving UK resident doctors priority but the BMA leadership turned down the offer as they are fixated on pay. So the biggest culprits are Johnson/Sunak for creating this crazy immigration system and the BMA leadership for not looking after the trainees doctors.

The BMA could end this tomorrow if they accept Steeting’s offer for junior doctors and stop striking.

Some of those posts are 1 year contracts its the training posts they cannot get. So they will never become registrars or consultants and may have to move each year and apply each year.

Thinking about these bottlenecks in the system.

I am no expert on healthcare but we have a similar issue in education. Finding suitable trainee teachers takes time. Actually training them takes time. Ditto with qualified staff.

I am training a (very good) teacher trainee at the moment. I have zero allowance of time to do this. Not one single extra minute. I do it because I think it's important and to pay it forward because people helped me similarly when I was a trainee. I'm supposed to evidence that I've done 15 hours of training myself!

I went away for the weekend with a doctor friend a couple of years back and she disclosed that a lot of her time when she is training younger doctors is actually spent supporting them with serious mental health problems

We found a lot in common. Both doing these essential tasks that relate directly to the future workforce but with no time allowance to do them. We're both going to be knackered by 60 and we've got decent pensions...

Our daughter finished her foundation 2 years training in August and luckily had saved hard to go travelling for 6 months whilst she had the chance . Very few of her friends have jobs many are unemployed unless they went to Australia. When she started her degree she said was almost guaranteed a job in one of the less competitive sectors ie paediatrics and she has applied for this for next August but her chances are very low, last year she wouldn't have any qualified for an interview . It's heartbreaking and shocking .If we don't open up many training places and don't train many drs. Where will we be in years to come .

Where is he emigrating?

Has he actually got this sorted?

Well that’s depressing.

I can assure you that I see it done very badly, with over- emphasis on saving money, and failure to effectively implement risk mitigations.

I don't think anyone has said they're all shit?

I do wonder if there's a barrier based on education that you aren't seeing necessarily? If these doctors are recruited by medical specialists speaking in medical terms, is there not a risk that as PP said, there might be idiomatic barriers between them and patients who do not speak the same medical language AS WELL as main language? Effectively needing to translate twice.

FWIW, it's far from the only issue with healthcare communication. The treatment of women's pain, for example being an absolute shocker.

Ignoring all the racism on this thread, my dd is in her first foundation year and is planning to go to Australia when she finishes. Apart from anything else, what a waste of all the (financial) investment that the country has spent on her. It just doesn't make economic sense!