Is the renaming of Dublin’s Herzog Park antisemitic?

Other names have been changed, or there have been calls to rename them.

The Berkeley Library
The Schrödinger Theatre
The Westmoreland Hotel
Nassau Street
La Touche Bridge

I think it should be renamed. No public space should have a political affiliation.

Oh, it's not about me. I'm only one individual. It's about the wider conversation this inevitably starts.

But you should be clear, it's quite possible to hold the views you do about the involvement of both in genocide, ie not think the two men can be equated, and still understand that this leaves the question open as to what the appropriate level of collusion with genocide is. If the line isn't collaboration with the literal Nazis then elected representatives are going to be asked to make clear where it is. This isn't a partisan point.

It would be wise to understand and accept the inevitable implications of this before supporting a name change, or even a vote on it.

It's not removing the name of a Jewish person,, it's removing the name of a Zionist IDF commander.

You are deliberately confusing Jewish with Israeli. That is antisemitic.

"A flawed legacy" 😅 So displacing hundreds of thousands of people from their homes and land is just a little flaw ???

Indeed. While I can't dictate the course of the discussion I can decide if I want myself being derailed by the notion of the Russell statue being in any way directly comparable with Herzog Park. There are of course varying degrees of collusion with genocidal regimes and to try to equate Russell with Herzog is deliberately clouding the issue of having the park renamed. But you work away with it if you want

But I'm just pissed off now that someone said I was being antisemitic without telling me why! Maybe they'll come back and enlighten me.

I mean it can be argued that this seems like a silly gesture but it clearly has nothing to do with his Jewishness and everything to do with his being a President of Israel.

What I DO believe to be anti-semitic is the constant conflation of “Jewish” and “Israeli / Israel”.

It’s only anti-semitic if you believe everything is anti-semitic.

You're allowed to think that, of course. What you don't get to do is to dictate the parameters of the discussion.

This isn't even a specifically anti-Russell or pro-Herzog argument. One could agree totally with the beliefs you express here in principle, whilst understanding that the inevitable consequence of making the argument. That is, being asked for clarification about exactly what level of collusion with genocidal regimes is considered acceptable by Dublin City Council when it comes to commemorative public spaces. It's unwise for anyone to do that unless they're prepared to provide a detailed answer.

And important for you to understand that there is huge difference between Russell who did a bit of training with the Nazi army and a commander in the IDF who oversaw the expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians from their own land. This ethnic cleansing has never ceased and still goes on today alongside a blatant genocide in Gaza so It's not really a balanced comparison, is it. It's no comparison at all.

Important to understand that it's not within your power to unilaterally define what constitutes on topic here. You are allowed to want this to be solely about one specific proposal in one specific park if you want, but nobody else is obligated to agree with your definition of what the parameters are. Dublin Council, a large elected body with substantial resources that they make decisions about how to use, own more than one park. They have authority over many naming traditions in public spaces. Anyone who wants to take a purely isolationist approach over any one local government proposal is going to have to do a very good job at explaining why, in any context.

But this is why it was quite a can of worms to open. The Russell statue has long been controversial, and that was the case well before this proposal. Dublin as a city doesn't benefit from global discussion about the decision to have a statue of a Nazi hobnobber who died on a U-boat standing and maintained in one of the parks they own.

Micheál Martin can say what he likes but the reaction from non establishment people tells it's own story.
What the 'controversy' has done, is exposed Herzog and his brutality to a much wider audience, which is good. There are many Jewish people who would not support or want to commemorate a man who was an IDF commander during the Nakba, illegally occupied Latrun, was the first military Governor of the West Bank overseeing mass illegal settlements and the murder of Palestinian families.

Irish history lives in the memory of it's people, the effects are still around the country and that massively influences their independent thinking. They know and recognise injustice when they see it. They recognise a brutal regime in which Herzog had a major role. Sin é.

You’re not qualified to comment with a post like that.

How is it antisemitic?

What the Taoiseach says has nothing to do with anything.

It is time to tear down the names of Zionist war criminals, him being Jewish is purely incidental. Keeping the name does more harm to Jewish people.

You've some nerve insinuating I am antisemitic. Please explain how what I said was antisemitic? You won't though as you are just trying to cloud the issue by saying that. There is no defence of Herzog the Israeli war criminal who as a commander of the Israeli army was responsible for the theft of Palestinian land, upholding apartheid and the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from the West Bank. But you know this so all you're left with is throwing about the antisemitic accusations. People don't object to a park being named after him because he was Jewish but instead because he was essentially an Israeli war criminal.

Cork was very cute going with 'Shalom Park', making the point and sidestepping the politics.