Is the renaming of Dublin’s Herzog Park antisemitic?

It’s a matter of semantics, right? Look, I think the proposal is many things but probably not anti semitic per se- I am descended from Irish Jews who had to change their names due to the antisemitism in Ireland at the time however there is a history and context here that many won’t be aware of.

Terrorists or freedom fighters ? ? ?

It’s the old argument of where do you draw the lines though it terms of renaming streets. Zion Road is just round the corner. Many streets and statues in Ireland commemorate who were essentially Irish terrorists - and then there’s the British colonial legacy evident everywhere in place names, manor housing, etc. It’s petty, woke posturing based on this being the “current thing”.

It’s the old argument of where do you draw the lines though it terms of renaming streets. Zion Road is just round the corner. Many streets and statues in Ireland commemorate who were essentially Irish terrorists - and then there’s the British colonial legacy evident everywhere in place names, manor housing, etc. It’s petty, woke posturing based on this being the “current thing”.

Gosh, you’re right. He’s so stupid, he should have contacted you for advice on how to keep the country safe from terrorism. Silly man.

It’s not equivalent at all, because it is quite literally the most fundamental part of the job of a Prime Minister to keep the population of their country safe - and that means the whole country, not just the bits that vote for them. And Netanyahu has always sold himself to the Israeli people as ‘the only one who can keep them safe.’

The ongoing terrorist threat from Gaza was entirely predictable. Netanyahu’s decision to redeploy troops from the Gaza border area to the illegal settlements in the West Bank was stupid, arrogant and blatantly politically motivated, given that the settlers vote for him and his far-right coalition partners while the Kibbutzniks near Gaza are the descendants of the original Labour Zionists and are therefore predominantly left-leaning.

I see nothing antisemitic in that post. Criticism of Israel, sure but nothing specifically due to being Jewish. I also free that Israel is currently a pariah state. Does that make me antisemitic too?

Are you for real? This is the equivalent of saying if a woman is arrogant enough to not keep a constant eye on her drink in front of her in a bar because she feels safe in a place, and then it’s spiked and she’s raped, it’s her own fault.

What an absolutely insane statement.

Apparently it might still happen. It has only been postponed because of an administrative error.

This is a ridiculous attempt to use word salad to justify antisemitism. That’s all this is. Everything you are saying is ‘I dislike Israel, past, present and future, and therefore nobody should celebrate anything any Jew has achieved.’

It’s disgraceful. But I’m glad we are allowed to read it for what it is. I wouldn’t want you censored. It needs to be clear how much rot has set in.

Yes, time to close the thread. The vote didn't happen and the park hasn't and won't be renamed.

This has gone off piste 🤔

Are you for real? This is the equivalent of saying if a woman is arrogant enough to not keep a constant eye on her drink in front of her in a bar because she feels safe in a place, and then it’s spiked and she’s raped, it’s her own fault.

What an absolutely insane statement.

How exactly does sodomising Palestinian detainees help defend against terror?

I don’t understand why pro-Israel zealots like yourself want to make everything so black and white. I am someone who supports Israel’s continued existence as a Jewish state within its 1967 borders - but that doesn’t mean I have to enthusiastically support every distasteful thing the Israeli government does.

October 7th was an atrocity, and of course the Israeli people were left incredibly traumatised. But it could also have easily been avoided if so many IDF units hadn’t been stationed in the West Bank guarding the ever growing number of illegal settlements, leaving only a skeleton force that was easily overrun on the Gaza border. It was Netanyahu’s arrogance, thinking he’d ‘solved’ the Gaza problem, that made it possible.

Also, why is it that you believe the trauma of Israelis from October 7th - one day - justifies any and every brutality against Palestinians, however vaguely it can be construed as ‘defensive’, but the unimaginable trauma that Palestinian civilians endured across 2 entire years does not? Why the double standard? Why is only one group allowed to process their trauma and anger with violence?

I don't think this is primarily about Chaim Herzog himself, it's about Israel.

Ronald Reagan was hardly faultless, and it's entirely reasonable to suggest Reagan was partly responsible for some of the USA's actions at the time he was US President.

Israel has a decades-long history of contempt for both International Law and Human Rights. This doesn't just stem back to Herzog's time, it predates it all the way back to the advent of the Israeli State. If you continually conduct yourself in similar ways to other pariah states, I don't think it's any wonder then that eventually other nations stop taking your claims to be an upstanding member of the international community on face value, and eventually they begin to view you and treat you in no different a way to they do those other pariah states.

Israel's recent excesses may have served to prompt this change, but it's not as if Israel's reprehensible behaviours only begun in the aftermath of the October 7th attacks. The period since is the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak.

It's worth noting that Ireland has been one of Israel's most strident critics of late. In my opinion it's only natural to expect elected governments to follow public opinion to a degree, and if there is a distaste in the population for honouring prominent members of what is regarded as a pariah state, I'd expect that to be reflected in the decisions then taken.

If the US fell into disrepute in the wider international community to the extent that Israel has, I expect there would likely be people also railing against the honouring or veneration of Ronald Reagan. Some still do anyway, just for slightly different reasons to those related to Israel.