Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that the mansion tax breaks the principles of taxation

159 replies

NorthXNorthWest · 29/11/2025 10:26

Most taxes fall into:
Income you receive
Profit you realise
Spending you choose

Council tax sit outisde of this. Its more like levy based valuation bandings and was a quick and dirty fix after the poll tax fiasco. It is effectively a service charge not a wealth tax.

Whereas mansion tax is the government estimating the value your actual house, then treating this valuation as pure profit then taxing you on this. Given the majority of homes are purchased with mortgages and paid for by already taxed money:

Why is

Mansion Tax = Estmated value × %

More reasonable than

CGT = Profit * % (Profit = Actual sales price - (Purchase price + actutal costs)

With actual costs being renovations not stamp duty or interest paid on your mortgage

I am not in the mansion tax bracket. I do accept that some taxes need to rise but I don't believe this is the solution.

OP posts:
Original poster
NorthXNorthWest · 01/12/2025 00:07

maltravers · 30/11/2025 22:58

My objection to it is the north/south divide. So someone in an expensive London house pays, while someone with a bigger house in the north where prices are lower pays nothing - that doesn’t seem fair to me. It seems like a tax on the SE.

So the real issue is that people in the North might miss out on being hit by a bad tax? Don't worry the council tax brands will stick it to them...

Why aren't you focused on why the government can get away with imposing a bad tax? The North isn’t the problem here. You are fighting the wrong enemy.

OP posts:
Original poster
NorthXNorthWest · 30/11/2025 23:46

BitOutOfPractice · 30/11/2025 22:51

I’m sorry but my violin is really really tiny on this issue. As it was for the couple on £120k complaining about the tax relief changes on ISAs on the bbc website.

It takes a special kind of person to be so wrapped up in jealousy and ignorance that they can’t even recognise the government screwing other people over. Mocking savers for being upset when the goalposts on ISAs get moved isn’t insight, it just advertises how little you know. If I was you I would give up the violin routine, you wouldn’t recognise a good tune even if it hit you in the face.

OP posts:
Original poster
NorthXNorthWest · 30/11/2025 23:06

firstofallimadelight · 30/11/2025 22:11

Or to simplify it there’s two categories-

taxes @NorthXNorthWest accepts

taxes @NorthXNorthWestdoesnt accepts

I am not affected by this policy but but I recognise what it does and where it is heading. I accept that I will have to pay more tax because I accept that comes with living in civilised society. What I don’t accept is being told to swallow bad policy that pretends to tackle inequality while actually entrenching it. If you’re going to ask people to pay more, the least you can do is target the causes of inequality, not load more pressure onto the consequences of a broken system.

OP posts:
maltravers · 30/11/2025 22:58

My objection to it is the north/south divide. So someone in an expensive London house pays, while someone with a bigger house in the north where prices are lower pays nothing - that doesn’t seem fair to me. It seems like a tax on the SE.

BitOutOfPractice · 30/11/2025 22:51

I’m sorry but my violin is really really tiny on this issue. As it was for the couple on £120k complaining about the tax relief changes on ISAs on the bbc website.

Original poster
NorthXNorthWest · 30/11/2025 22:45

daisychain01 · 30/11/2025 08:21

I wonder how many property sales will go through at £1.99M with the extra booked as fixtures and fittings to avoid the levy ...

On top of this, there will non be a group of people who decide it is now financial suicide to move up the ladder

you're talking about a tiny number of property owners, and you're not taking account of those who already live in £2m+ houses who aren't going to move because they now have to pay £2,500 a year extra.

neither will people stop their house move plans because of the tax, they'll have predicted this and now be working with their vendor to avoid the levy by the method I've mentioned at the top of my post. Anyone buying a £3-5m house isn't going to be bothered either.

Edited

It’s not about how many it hits, it’s what it does to behaviour. £2m+ owners who can, sit tight. Those those near the line suddenly discover “fixtures and fittings”, and £3 -£5m buyers might just absorb. We haven’t even seen the damage from the council tax revaluations yet.

Meanwhile this false-flag tax still ignores the real drivers of inequality and just hands discounted stock to the cash buyers waiting to hoover it up.

OP posts:
firstofallimadelight · 30/11/2025 22:11

Or to simplify it there’s two categories-

taxes @NorthXNorthWest accepts

taxes @NorthXNorthWestdoesnt accepts

JaninaDuszejko · 30/11/2025 22:02

People hate inheritance tax though (even though most won't pay it) which is when you could tax on house profits. Trouble is of course is that it's fairly easy to avoid with inheritance planning so it becomes a tax on putting all your eggs in one basket. Nobody rich is really affected by it.

Original poster
NorthXNorthWest · 30/11/2025 18:45

CanSeeClearlyNowTheRainHasGone · 29/11/2025 15:23

There is only one principle of taxation:

Extract as much as possible under threat of force without people noticing, refusing to pay, and ultimately rebelling.

We've had taxes on property, windows (a proxy for the value of your house), and beards.

Interesting though that commercial buildings, or residential buildings owned by a company, are not subjected to the tax, nor people that rent a high value property.

I'm therefore waiting for some mortgage company to come up with some elaborate hire purchase scheme to replace a standard mortgage.

.

Show quote history

I suspect it won't be long.

OP posts:
Original poster
NorthXNorthWest · 30/11/2025 18:44

RedTagAlan · 30/11/2025 02:58

Quote : " That is why Estimated Value × % is weaker and harsher than Actual Profit × %."

When I read that, and you mention profit, It seems to me that you think taxing the rise in value of a property ( the profit ), if fairer ?

Is that what you are saying ?

What is the greater number ? The mansion tax, or the increase in value of a property for the period the tax is due ?

Show quote history

One of the arguments for a mansion tax is that older homeowners have benefited from extraordinary increases/windfall in value simply by being in the right place at the right time, I’m not saying we should tax profit, only that profit is a more reasonable and fairer metric. It directly addresses the 'unearned wealth' criticism, ability to pay, and aligns with how most other taxes already work.

My point was that If the real goal is to tax 'wealth', then an annual charge on an asset treated as pure profit for the basis of a best guess, government massaged valuation is one of the most ethically questionable tools you could choose.

OP posts:
poetryandwine · 30/11/2025 17:55

NorthXNorthWest · 30/11/2025 17:09

My understanding is that the IFI is what is left after the massive back pedalling the French government had to do after their wealth tax failed. It's the policy equivalent of putting lipstick on a pig... it freed up no housing, cut no prices, the wealthy sidestepped it, and it raises barely any real money..

Show quote history

But property tax works well in
America and Germany, two of the world’s three main economies.

I am guessing that most opposed to this tax ‘on principle’ do not wish to emulate the Chinese principles of (non)ownership: you can buy your dwelling, but only lease the land it is built on from the government, for a relatively short term. I am grateful to a contributor on the ‘mansion tax’ thread for explaining this.

JaninaDuszejko · 30/11/2025 17:46

I live in a band F property in the NE of England, I currently pay £3400 in council tax per year which is equivalent to ~1% of my property value.

£2500 is 0.1% of the value of a £2M house. The majority of houses affected by the mansion tax are in London where council tax for a band F property is much lower than it is in the NE despite the fact that London has integrated and cheaper public transport, free museums, and schools get more money per pupil. My heart bleeds for them.

London Boroughs - Council tax league table 2024

Bexley council,London Borough of Bexley,Bexley,Abbey Wood,Abbey Wood station,Crossrail,North Kent line

https://bexley-is-bonkers.co.uk/local_taxes/league_table/2024.php

AgnesMcDoo · 30/11/2025 17:22

There are no principles of taxation and this is an issue (like private schools VAT) where most people won’t play their sympathy violins fornyou

Original poster
NorthXNorthWest · 30/11/2025 17:09

Nightingaille · 29/11/2025 13:51

Other European countries tax property value.The IFI is an annual property wealth tax in France, payable if the total value of your taxable French real estate exceeds €1.3 million on January 1st of the year.

My understanding is that the IFI is what is left after the massive back pedalling the French government had to do after their wealth tax failed. It's the policy equivalent of putting lipstick on a pig... it freed up no housing, cut no prices, the wealthy sidestepped it, and it raises barely any real money..

OP posts:
Ginmonkeyagain · 30/11/2025 16:30

@Sesma yes I would prefer wholesale reform to council tax and a proper property tax. The current system is crazy, as the owner of a band B property in South East London I literally pay more than someone in Westminster who owns a band E property. But we have to start somehwere.

RedTagAlan · 30/11/2025 16:29

Savoury · 30/11/2025 09:20

Responding to the poster who said this will raise half a million for flood defences. The truth is that half a billion is very little, way more than the welfare reform that Labour Reform MPs wouldn’t stomach and much less than all other tax raising mechanisms. It could cost more to administer at the start so they’re only doing it to expand to many more homes soon.
It is like the farmer inheritance changes and VAT on school fees - a starter before the main course.

That might be a post I made that you are referencing.

My point was simply that it is fair that those with most to lose contribute a bit more to fund the projects that need doing.

As an example, take the Thames barrier. A project that needed to be done to protect London, and it has worked well. There are anti flood projects all over the UK, not on as grand a scale, but essential as we get wetter from climate change.

Not all tax goes on benefits as you know.

Thinking about it, for flood defences, maybe property footprint would be a good way to split the costs. A tower block apartment in Dagenham has a tiny footprint compared to a mansion on the Sommerset Levels. But that would be a new system, and cost to implement as you say. So the Guv went with council tax bands. Not the fairest way perhaps, but fair enough, and with the structure in place to collect it.

WalkDontWalk · 30/11/2025 15:32

LaraLiving · 29/11/2025 18:13

Pretty sure you know what Google is right?
but I’ll bite. It destroys aspirations.

Show quote history

Never destroyed mine. Here I am, ancient, and in danger of having to pay the mansion tax having aspired like mad, and still socialist.

poetryandwine · 30/11/2025 14:03

Sesma · 30/11/2025 13:58

But is that all properties rather than just ones over £2mil deemed to be owned by the wealthy.

Show quote history

Gotta start somewhere!

I would have preferred a uniform, very small per cent on all properties to replace Council Tax. But given the uproar this and similar uplifts have caused, I imagine we would all be deaf had that happened.

Sesma · 30/11/2025 13:58

Ginmonkeyagain · 30/11/2025 13:45

And plenty of countries, including the USA have an annnual property tax.

But is that all properties rather than just ones over £2mil deemed to be owned by the wealthy.

poetryandwine · 30/11/2025 13:47

Ginmonkeyagain · 30/11/2025 13:45

And plenty of countries, including the USA have an annnual property tax.

Yes. So do Germany, France and Canada. USA and Germany are two of the world’s three biggest economies.

Ginmonkeyagain · 30/11/2025 13:45

And plenty of countries, including the USA have an annnual property tax.

Ginmonkeyagain · 30/11/2025 13:45

Don't be such a fanny. Council tax and the old "rates" are based on the value of your property as well.

poetryandwine · 30/11/2025 13:41

SerendipityJane · 29/11/2025 18:01

"No taxation without representation" as the colonial tax dodgers got their dupes to shout.

Show quote history

It is a fair principle.

Do say more

Notmycircusnotmyotter · 30/11/2025 13:14

It's another disgusting, ill thought out tax designed to beat "the rich" and thereby placate the labour left

TheMorgenmuffel · 30/11/2025 12:35

ByQuaintAzureWasp · 30/11/2025 09:48

Its bloody ridiculous (im nowhere near or ever will have a £2m house).
Its for local services and should be per adult head count.

Edited

They tried that with the poll tax and the country lost its shit.

Tbh I think a charge pp for services is fairer than a charge depending on what your house is worth.