To refuse to pay this nursery charge

@CheeseIsMyIdol 'I’m a professional, lifelong editor with plenty of experience parsing others’ writing. And I have no idea what the basis of your complaint is. You aren’t explaining as clearly as you think you are.'

You are obviously not very good at your job. This is not hard to understand.

Or maybe people need to learn how to read.

@Jeronnemo you’ve been very clear.

As others have suggested, I would write to the nursery/accounts dept in the guise of checking you've understood properly to get the reasoning in writing. Then I suppose it is a matter of either sucking it up, or making a stand. It does seem out of order, but some people/companies do out of order things when they think they can get away with it. Good luck.

The will be the same for other parents there. So ask them what they are doing,

Most nurseries have incompetent financial management is the bigger issue. Those directing the budgets day to day are not trained in finance or business. They are excellent childcare staff who have risen the ranks to manager but don’t have the skills to competently handle the finance.

Reminds me of my story described upthread with £1000 requested to be paid just to get on the waiting list. Word salad followed. They should have just called it the admin charge - meaning “we need more money so take it or leave it”.

I'm wondering why you're spending an additional £40 a time for an activity that doesn't cost the nursery any additional money, staff or resources. How did they justify the additional charge for it in the first place? Why did all the parents agree to pay it?

It makes sense what you are saying. Have you spoken to any other parents about this?

No, I absolutely don't condone them having to do this - and as I said in my earlier post, they've communicated it very badly.

It may be that they've previously told parents 'with a wink' on numerous occasions what the stated charge is really needed for and haven't twigged that OP wasn't present at any of those times. Possibly they believe that she knows very well that it's a cover to make up for the funding shortfall and are irritated at her for, as they maybe see it, trying to make trouble for them and refusing to play ball?

What I don't condone most of all is successive governments making providers charge less for a service than is viable and insisting that it is 'free' because they've paid for it in full - and thus leaving them no alternative but to either charge extra in a roundabout/underhand way or just to close down.

🤦🏽‍♀️ the op has been quite clear that paying for the activity on Nov 1 was for the activity to go ahead in Nov. The manager didn’t say oh Nov invoice is for Dec. The manager admitted the activity didn’t go ahead but didn’t give a clear reason as to why not.

Just make sure that the end month isn't added on and it evens out. I'd get clarification for it.

Although you pay on 1 November for your November childcare fees, it sounds like this activity needs to be paid further in advance. That makes sense - if they have someone coming in from early December it’s probably too much of a risk for them to only be getting the funds from that from you on 1 December, and they would likely be out of pocket now if they need to pay the facilitator in advance.

I think you are therefore unreasonable to threaten to take the money out of the 1 December bill, because that money will therefore cover the cost of this activity in January. If you end up charged an extra month by the end of it all that’s a different matter of course. I also think you’re unreasonable to call the manager a liar, perhaps she didn’t explain things well when put on spot - sound familiar? 😂

Do you mean that you think the nursery is right when they agreed that the paid for activity hadn't taken place?

Weirdly your childminder and the nursery might bill in different ways, who knew that not all childcare providers are the same?

I’m not sure either. You’ve explained it really clearly!
The only way to challenge it is if you know the other parents well enough to get everyone on board so it’s not just you. If you are just on your own objecting then nursery hold all the cards as they know you can’t risk losing the place if your child is happy. I think you just have to pay, given the small amount relative to risk of losing place. Annoying.

The manager hasn’t indicated that. Instead gave a load of ‘word salad’ as to why the activity was charged for November but didn’t go ahead. If it was a simple case of op has paid for a month where the activity didn’t happen but it’s ok because they won’t be charged the last month then I’m sure the manager would have expressed that clearly. The fact the op is no clearer as to why the activity didn’t happen but was still charged doesn’t show great management from the nursery.

Op I would be inclined to do what PP have suggested and email the nursery asking for clarification. It must be hard if this is your only nursery option but can a few of you parents all get together and agree to email?

I feel for nurseries and how hard it is to keep them going but they can’t be ripping parents off like this - and if they aren’t trying to rip you off then they will be more than happy to be clear and concise about what has happened re the charge.

Presumably if you only pay this in the winter months then the charge will end a month early. So you won't pay for feb (for example) but the activity will still run?

I pay for some club the same price each month even though each month has a different number of sessions. The whole club between September and February costs x pounds and they just spread it equally between several months. Lets say 60 pounds for 6 months, 10 per month rather than 12 in September, 12 in November, but 6 in December. Perhaps the activity costs 80. Nurseries do need more money than government funding, so they have different ways of doing it - mine had “admin charges”. If they are really taking the mick and it’s not a good value for money, leave them. I remember one nursery wanted me to pay £1000 for my twins just to get on the waiting list without a guarantee of a place, so I steered clear of them (I think it was one person there who was somewhat daft and when I pointed out the absurdity of it, she became very verbose and I think got lost in her own explanations, but it was obviously best to steer clear).

Totally agree. Loads of people understood it from the first post. Lots of posters seem incapable of drawing inferences or even reading more than one post by the OP.

I always pay a month in advance for childcare bills. So I’d assume you’d be charged December’s bill in November so the activity would be on there? I think the nursery is right.

This is such a frustrating post- both for the poster and for the readers. We often think we are being completely clear in how we communicate and are amazed then to find that others haven’t understood. It can be frustrating to have to re explain but also frustrating for the reader who thinks it still isn’t clear. Moving forward, would you like us to suggest how we might handle the situation to help you address the unfairness? Or would you like us first to validate just how unfair this has been?

Ah, that makes sense now!

As it’s a monthly charge not a one-off one for the whole winter (which I think was what was unclear to many of us before) you can and should request a refund. I think email might be the best format for this as it creates an expectation of a written response and takes away the opportunity for anyone to be a bit difficult with you unless they’re willing to commit it to writing.

I would be very polite but persistent (if required), e.g.

Dear X

Thank you for organising Y activity, which Z always really enjoys during the winter months.

I’m emailing as I noticed a charge for the activity on my November invoice and wanted to check if this was correct. I’m aware that Y normally only takes place from December, and from discussions with Z and other parents, my understanding is that it hasn’t taken place in November. This may, of course, be wrong, but I would appreciate it if you could clarify this for me. Has Y activity taken place in November? If so, could you please confirm the date(s) when it occurred?

Thanks for looking into this and clarifying it for me, and for your ongoing care of Z.

Best wishes
…

The problem is that you haven't explained how you know for certain that the November payment isn't covering December.

If that's what the manager said, just say so.

I think t(e payments were taken in advance of the activity - not unreasonable if the nursery have to provide anything extra. Keep a close watch on the payments which should cease the month before the activity stops taking place. If you’re still not happy then refer the matter to the nursery owners…….they might not know what’s happening .

Which do you think is more likely

a) the OP went to the trouble of setting up a second account to post in a different name or
b) someone might see her point

Hmmmm?