Not able to eat at school? Punitive systems

Ok.

sounds like a tricky school to be in.

schools often have shorter lunchtimes to deal with social issues - ie if the kids only have time to eat they don’t have time to go around getting into fights. Saves a surprisingly large amount of senior staff time but it is quite brutal on both teachers and kids.

is the canteen open at break time? My school had a similar timetable but opened the canteen at break as well and honestly many kids ate their “lunch” then. As did staff.

if the management are in a situation where there are fights and it’s a generally low achieving set of kids then there often is a punitive approach.

does your dc know what he needs to do to get out of the interventions? (Ie does he know why he is there? - eg art coursework behind, maths work not on target etc. there will be a reason).

Ah.

i see your problem.

I suspect in this case he needs to key into the peer network better. If he’s asked his form tutor to do something more than twice and it hasn’t happened it’s not worth asking again, he needs to ask the other kids what to do and where to go.

honestly at times even as a teacher I found it more helpful asking the kids how to get something sorted then going through the management structures.

can he download the app that you seem to have access to onto his phone or is the school one of the “no phones ever” sort of schools?

The more you post, the more it seems like school are trying to help him catch up and no one has really considered the pressure I him logistically.

I'd contact the head of year and point out (nicely) the issues.

At my school, children that need to get food are taken to the canteen, even whilst in detention.

Also, lunch sounds very late.

Everything does sound a bit harsh. I think I'd write it all out clearly and request a meeting to clarify and confirm the events happened exactly as your son reported to you before taking any action. Just to do your due diligence, not trying to prove your son wrong, mind you.
Also, could your son have had a bagged lunch from home to eat in detention? If so, it is reasonable to have been told that.

After reading this update OP, you should think about what you want to achieve here. If your DS only has 2 more years of schooling, could he grind and bear it? Especially if it means achieving the exam results he requires?

If you do decide to contact the school, focus on actionable change. You’ll never get them to give up their convoluted app system, but perhaps you focus on your son being given enough time to eat lunch when given a detention? Or, for example, a way for the app information to be better communicated to the students throughout the day.

If it’s really hard to find a good school place, unfortunately, your hands are rather tied here.

Is there a clear process for parental concerns and complaints?

It sounds like they expect them to know the systems already in year 11. Which to be fair by that point most kids will have been there for four years so should do.

example: you say he was late and missed form time which has an automatic lunchtime detention, but he can’t see the app so didn’t know. Surely he’s noticed that he missed form time and therefore knows he has an automatic lunchtime detention? He doesn’t need an app for that just a watch!

my school did used to get SLT to go and collect some students from class for their lunchtime detentions but we would in general expect students to remember if they had detention/intervention and actually attend.

Ours is similar and on days when they have pe, the massive pe kit (and the fact that they aren’t allowed lockers so have to carry coats all day too) means that along with books/ musical instruments , my little lad looks like a laden camel and simply hates having to cart lunch/ water too. Combine this with all the hustle and bustle at lunch means he frequently goes without lunch :(
Not that the suso and and pasta pot combo is particularly nutritious anyway .
He always comes out of school bursting for a wee because they have some sort of locked toilets policy for most of the day too.
The health and wellbeing of pupils isn’t the first priority though. My school would far rather a child be in ‘correct’ shoes (silly brogues, freezing blazer) in winter rather than in weather appropriate winter clothes (boots / coat), regardless of the fact that we live fairly rurally with extreme weather and and the school is liable to close in the middle of the day and expects students to walk home if roads are impassable in snow. I just don’t see that wearing winter boots is a massive affront to equality 🤷‍♀️ but that’s a whole other tangent.

I’ve worked at lots of schools in my teaching career, and this sounds absolutely insane.

Automatic detention for lateness? I’ve never had that in any school I’ve worked at. Consistent lateness (usually more than 3 times in a short period of time) is addressed with the student and parents, and measures are put in place to improve punctuality. How is it your son’s fault that the bus was late or there was a storm!?

Missed lunch due to detention? No way. We’d have parents rioting at the gates if we ever tried that at my current school. Lunchtime detention always allows for a 20-min period to eat.

I have to say though, I’ve never taught in an academy. I’ve taught in comprehensive, private, and international contexts. I’ve heard from teacher friends that academies are way stricter, but I didn’t realise it was this intense.

Sounds absolutely awful. I’d complain and raise basic human rights reminders. A detention is fine - depriving of food and basic human needs is not. Could you raise this with the local authority?

I’ve got a bright, on the ball, independent kid and I’ve been thinking about having him do online school from year 7-9 and then straight into college at 14. Mainly because I don’t feel the local secondary schools (all academies) are healthy at all. I have worked with victims of domestic abuse and coercive control. Many of the tactics seem scarily similar.

They cant deny children food. In any other scenario that would be child abuse. Why is it acceptable in a school?

Ok, well if he’s year 11 then interventions do happen.

it’s usually for kids that are pretty seriously off track to basically make them do some work. He can probably take his packed lunch and eat it there that’s what both teachers and kids did at our school.

at my most recent school the interventions were pretty fierce. We got good results but it was made very clear to the kids that if they didn’t put the work in and get the grades that they should be doing that they’d be working at lunchtimes instead.

most of them got the message pretty quickly to be fair, but some took longer than others.

Yes completely concur with you 🫂
This is horrendously unfair & unkind
💚😢💚

Ah, the fact he's transferred schools in Y11 explains a lot. Quite an interesting parental decision.

it’s a punitive system of constant directed time

This describes teaching generally now. And it's extending to the kids. The chances are teachers don't want to spend their unpaid lunch running detentions or interventions either, but are expected to.

Yes, this is becoming more common.
No, it’s not ok.
Good luck trying to change it.

Is this school in the SW?

I would also say that the parents don’t know the half of it. It’s hard to communicate the extent of the control, coercion, gaslighting, almost abusive way some school leaders direct staff to deal with children these days. If you haven’t worked in a school like it, you can’t imagine it. And that’s before you get to the reductive spoon-feeding scripted direct instruction that passes for lessons. Enormous class sizes. Gradual removal of vocational subjects. No practical. No creativity. All lessons the same.

Not all schools are like it. But they do exist. And are increasingly common.

Most kids will have their lunch in the late morning break and grab a snack for the later time. At my DD’s secondary school it’s normal for lunchtime sports clubs and other groups to run over lunchtime - the answer is to eat in the short break.

detentions are normal. A few detentions in Y7 can held dc understand where the boundaries are.