to be fed up of hearing 'I've worked hard for my money'

Oh gosh. That “one job” you told me you had earlier…

It’s “mother” isn’t it.

Not the finest minds on here. They don't understand what you are saying and never will.

Regarding the gender pay gap doesn't the data show that earnings drop off for women after the first kid?

Quite @pocketpairs

Reverse Oppression Olympics - you succeeded and did well in life? Well it's all because of privilege, privilege, provilege

Yes it’s a very real issue. I don’t deny it. But it’s an entirely separate issue to lack of representation in very senior roles. White is still very much on trend in the boardroom!

It’s likely a cyclical class / family problem, but agree it needs addressing.

I am off to watch I’m a celeb now, I need something light-hearted and it’s my guilty pleasure! 😂

I'm sure those are worth reading, but I am honestly more concerned by the low aspirations of the ordinary white working people. Every POC I meet locally seems to have a medical qualification. Our pharmacist is second generation and UK born, and AFAIK considered a valued and well-liked person. DH knows the person better than I and holds them in high regard.

To be fair, I have also read reports and research to support the argument that it is white, working-class boys that are at most disadvantage now.

that’s not to say they are the only disadvantaged group though, there are many others (disability being one of them).

Absolutely, but it’s a very different issue to the lack of representation of black and minority groups in very senior roles. This is a thread about high earners.

@PeonyPatch I think it came out of trying to show that privilege exists in lots of different ways, not just Eton and ponies, and hard work can only help so much when these privileges - whiteness, being able bodied, not experiencing childhood abuse, whatever - are taken into account. But I think that's telling me I've spent way too long on this thread, and need to go to bed with a good book now!

@newbluesofa fair play to you for fighting the fight here. I'm annoyed and tired and tapping out, but I think you're spot on.

A report in 2021 found white children from working class backgrounds are significantly underachieving when compared to other cohorts. For various reasons. The current Ed sec has called in a national disgrace and has launched another investigation.

I see ok. I don’t think it is a case of just work harder. I also think to some extent it’s luck. There aren’t enough high salary positions for absolutely everyone. Also, sometimes it is who you know.

Exactly

It has blown out of proportion because @PrawnsForDinnercouldn’t just answer the question. It was really only a side point to my initial point.

I am a bit confused as to how the thread has become focused on white privileged and ethnic minority groups to be perfectly honest. Seems a separate topic

Yes, I agree with you. I wonder how other countries support that industry. It would be interesting what they do in terms of childcare. Seems to be a big issue in the UK.

I had a neighbour who put their child in with a local childminder instead of nursery as it was more cost effective. Think the lady trained as a child minder for similar childcare issues.

If I’m talking bullshit how do you explain the disproportionate amount of white people in very senior roles? Why do you think there was a push for EDI in the workplace?

@Papyrophile - what @PrawnsForDinner has said actually does more or less indicate what white privilege is, I think. The very fact that educational outcomes and incomes can be predicted along ethnicity lines indicates that certain ethnicities have certain forms of privilege over others - even if it's just the privilege of growing up in a culture that values education. (The only other explanation is the despicably racist idea that some ethnicities are more intelligent/ deserving than others - which I assume you don't believe).

White privilege comes in where, for example, your local pharmacist will have encountered assumptions about - maybe - her ability to speak English, or her family life, or the specific aptitudes she has - that a white person won't. Like the assumption that women aren't assertive enough to be CEOs is a form of sexism which impacts female CEOs, there are assumptions made about ethnic minorities that aren't made about white people, and those assumptions can create barriers to progress through, e.g. unconscious bias at interviews - a known, studied, established issue for people with 'ethnic minority' sounding names getting shortlisted in certain sectors.

I think it a problem, but not as pronounced/ dominant as it’s made out to be. In very upper levels of Management at the places I have worked (banking) there is about as much race representation as there is for women. So yes, dominated by white men - but other areas of diversity just as problematic.
At other levels I haven’t seen a significant issue regarding race diversity in initial employment or progression. Where I do see a significant lack of diversity is from a socio economic perspective. But I do think that’s improving too, with more of a focus on the right person, rather than the ‘right university’ for example - less of a focus on employing grads.