to be fed up of hearing 'I've worked hard for my money'

I don't agree. Yes, there are some lazy people around but there are plenty of people who work really hard and don't get huge financial rewards. Some industries pay far more than others. People have different skills and aptitudes. Some people work hard for other rewards - acclaim, appreciation, altruism, creativity etc. We tend to see wealth as a sign of success but it's not the only measure, nor is it the most important one

Unfortunately some people are convinced that those with the most money are the most capable. But that assumes that everyone has a primary objective of earning as much money as possible.

It is incomprehensible to those people that there are intelligent and hard working people who aim to make a positive difference to the world, or enjoy their work etc in the first instance. And actually, often these people have a bigger impact on the lives of those around them. Again written off as a minor achievement by those motivated by money.

I was a teacher , then senior leader and now senior management/ work transformation contracts in local authority (turning around failing services essentially). My current job is less physically and mentally taxing than when I was teaching. Plenty of my former teaching colleagues are more than capable of doing what I do but are passionate about teaching and being in school. I earn (just) over the magic 100k that people bang on about here. I think many teachers (especially those with teaching and management responsibilities combined in school) work far harder and deal with more complex situations. The hardest job I have ever had was being a SENCO whilst having a class teaching responsibility. It was brutal.

We value the wrong things at times.

I am lucky to earn what I do, I'm capable and committed but there have definitely been 'right time, right place' moments in my career. But I'm definitely not more deserving of that salary than any of my lower paid teaching colleagues.

I had hoped Labour would bring us closer together. They’ve divided us further.

I think it says something about you morally if you can’t see the benefit of paying more in to a system that supports vulnerable people.

We already pay enough tax as it is. How is it "selfish" to want to keep more of your own money? I'm not an anarchist or believe everything should be privatised.

I generally believe in lowish taxes, and a free market that reward skill and hard work.

@Forgetmenot9 Thank you for saying this kind thing about me 💜

I don't know what I expected except just exactly what you said, tbh! That "you can earn more based on unique skills where the value of those is determined by employers/ the market/ clients". So, some people earn more than others based on things other than hard work, or even the extent of responsibility they have.

Not sure about the "we do live in society where opportunities are available" bit though. Just - maybe I'm wrong or just blinkered or something - but I genuinely struggle to see what opportunities were or even are available for my brothers, even though they're both clever, hardworking, skilled, and responsible, and friendly and presentable and all of that.

And separately (not just responding to you any more, but would be curious for your thoughts @Forgetmenot9 !), I think it's harder for women to have good careers if we have kids - people here talking about really sad sacrifices losses etc. But that's kind of compounded the difficulties for DB1. He's married to an amazing woman, but her career stalled after babies. So he's the higher earner of the two, and that's like a hard limit on their financial prospects. Whereas my career also stalled after I had my kids, but my DH had all these opportunities growing up which mean he earns more than my brothers ever will, and hasn't reached the top of his earning potential yet.

Maybe it's just - that's the way it is. But it makes me sad and honestly sometimes a bit guilty, that I kind of escaped the trap because I'm a woman, and they're stuck because they're men who had shitty starts in life?

I think the PP was just giving an example, not suggesting that teachers and nurses are the only people in that position.

Pause to insert (an old) joke...

Two women are talking over coffee.
One asks, "How much does your husband earn in a year?"
Her friend replies, "£250,000"
The first one says, "What!!"
The other says, "Well, he does work for Cunard"

The first woman replies, "Well my husband works fekkin' hard as well but he doesn't earn that much"

I don't know why you think they don't recognize that. One person having more money isn't the cause of someone else having less money. We're not a communist society. They have the broadest shoulders, they are already carrying the heavier load. They are allowed to have opinions on it just as much as anyone else is. They pay it whether they like it or not, they don't have to be delighted by it too.

Yes, those people work hard too and is theirs choices. However, this is about having to pay taxes to subsidise benefit street or repay debt. Tax,tax, tax everything that moves and nothing improve.

I agree. But I still think it's important not to conflate extreme outliers with the sort of people OP is criticizing. It's a whole different issue.

I know a lot of people, some work extremely hard, some work pretty hard, some work average, some a bit, and some not at all. Some people are motivated by money and go into chosen professions and careers as a result. Some are rewarded by other things that motivate them - working with animals, children, caring, creative etc. and this influences their career choices. Nothing in life is fair and nothing is equal but it’s simply not true to say everyone works hard.

Well then why are they saying it. If everyone works hard then why say you work hard fir your money if not suggesting that your shedloads of money is because you work hard as opposed to all those feckless lazy people who have less than me

I work hard and always have, but am paid less than the average wage, I have a degree, and have retrained, nothing has helped.
So they all pee me off

Finally!!! Some I information about YOU @PrawnsForDinner rather than your bloomin husband

Broadest shoulders.

I think those with those shoulders could do with recognising that there are people who’s “shoulders” are collapsing beneath them, and less recognising how difficult it is having loads of money.

It’s harder at the bottom than it is at the top.

Some (not all) are self made and have created businesses that benefit the economy.

DH and I were lucky. Both from very working class backgrounds. To be born relatively clever. To be born in a time when Grammar School access was not determined by tuition. By having parents who valued education. By not having student loans. By having opportunities to get starter jobs and gain experience. By being able to take that to get better jobs and build a career. I have worked hard, but no harder than any one else though maybe I took more risks than some, by moving, changing job etc. I am grateful for the opportunities I have had in my life. I haven't sacrificed anything. Maybe if you need to work 100 hours a week to be a top lawyer or banker, well that's what you sign up for surely? It's not a sacrifice - it's a trade off. If you achieved it, then good for you, but please don't moan about it afterwards, how hard done by you are - it was an active decision you made to do that. If you benefited from UK education, healthcare, policing, rubbish collection etc etc, please just pay your fecking tax and appreciate that you are in a better position than 99% of the whole world! Any one who fucks off to Dubai to pay no tax and live off the benefit of slave labour and sex trafficking deserves nothing but contempt. I am currently abroad and paying more than 50% tax and SS. We plan to come back to UK where ironically I would pay LESS tax!

Of course he takes more. But we high earners pay significantly more tax. We're the ones funding things around here.

Why is it fair to pay proportionally more? What's fair about that? You could argue that is unfair, but for the greater good. But it isn't fair.
They should be pulling more weight, and they already are.

I pulled my DH for saying similar this morning. He earns in excess of £100k and his job is mentally taxing. Do I think he works harder than some people on minimum wage - no.
He did study well but that possibly wouldn't have been possible without a privileged mc background

We are much more an inheritocracy than a meritocracy.

People like to believe they succeeded because of their own efforts, but it’s far more likely they did so because of their parents or simply good fortune.

Let's not conflate billionaires with regular old PAYE high earners. Makes the conversation meaningless. There's nit many billionaires and none of them are whining about their income tax bill on mumsnet.

Can you genuinely see that he pays a higher percentage because his income is so much higher, and that’s actually fair?

I pay more than a low income earner, quite rightly - I earn more, I have significantly more left afterward. Our lowest paid staff all pay basic rate tax, and after paying the higher percentage I do, I end up with approx 3x their take home pay.

You’d have to be fairly selfish and ignorant to not see that that means you should be pulling more of the weight.

And he takes home significantly more too.

You are still very lucky.