National Service returning to the UK?

Sad but 100% true. But instead of being angry and doing something about it, many are just becoming withdrawn from society (not helped by the internet and social media), suffering MH problems, and far too many are barely leaving their bedrooms, claiming disability (MH) benefits etc. It's a national scandal and needs investigating. Many of those who are working, usually in top professional roles, are actively thinking of leaving the UK to work/live abroad. We've really shafted our young!

Poor bloody kids eh!
Paying thousands for a uni education to become a barista.
Unable to afford a home.
Paying pensions for their grandparents and watching their parents spend their inheritances on campervans and cruises that they themselves will never afford.
I cannot believe the passivity of our youth, my generation would have been rioting in the streets. It's not Russia we should be afraid if, it's our youth when the scales from their eyes and they realise how much their own country has shafted them

Of course they wouldn't. The idea is only ever suggested by people too old to serve themselves.

As PP said, I hope all those who are keen for youngsters to enlist would be willing to fight themselves? It would be men and women nowadays. And why haven’t you joined the Armed Forces sooner?

I wonder if some of the bring back national service teach the kids some respect stuff doesn't have a Russian origin, actually. Obviously some people actually mean it, but who's to say what motivated our now disappeared OP? If you were looking to sow generational discord, that would be an effective mechanism.

Best thing we can do is increase patriotism in this country. Stop the slagging off of British history (all the developed world was trying to do became. We were just better at it at that point in time). Ensure schools and teachers focus on patriotic values. Stop all the anti British monotony on esp the BBC. Ensure that actually we can return to pride in our country - then people will fight for it.

it’s almost like there’s been a concerted effort to undermine pride in Britain and create division to stop people wanting to fight for it. Now who could have done that? It wouldn’t be the first time Russia has allied with certain groups to weaken the enemy

I am British living in Sweden with Swedish husband and our 18 year old (British born) twins. Every 17 year got full questionnaire to complete and they now have to travel to Stockholm (6 hour train ride) in January to complete a mandatory one day physical assessment for National Service. A couple of early born 2007's are doing it already. One is interested in doing it, the other isn't so keen.

Let's not forget Boris and the still to be published Russia report. Also his friendship with Evgeny Lebdev, son of a former KGB agent (an organisation that I didn't think you could retire from)

Yes and v.likely they were too young to do it when it existed here.

You and your family can be the first to volunteer.

Lol I know, whatever next- threatening them with having to pay tens of thousands for uni and sod all social housing?!

I’m 45 and am not overly optimistic I’ll have a state pension, let alone young people! 😂

Many veterans sadly end up in prison or in trouble with the law- I’ve seen the ill effects the forces have on men.

Guessing you’ll just be happy for everyone else “to serve this country” if we ever get invaded then

I will allow my children to fight when the children of the rich and powerful are also there on the frontline beside them. But they wont be.

Very few youngsters expect there to still be a state pension for all in 40 years when they come to retire, so that kind of threat is pretty pointless.

You first. Not sure threatening to withhold the state pension is much of a threat to 19 year olds, after all. You have to be old enough to actually expect to get one for that to have any teeth.

They should bring it back and anyone that refuses to do it should be denied the right to vote. And also be ineligible to claim any kind of benefits, including the state pension.

Thing to be aware of though is that the thinking certainly was, maybe still is that if push comes to shove , everyone can end up being a soldier in the generic sense.

For example once upon a time come exercise season the admin staff in station HQ on a RAF base could find themselves with a war role of base protection..running around with a rifle.

The armed services don't work like that. The likes of dental hygienists for example aren't on the front line, most will never even get close to a war zone. My friend who's a dental hygienist never went near any active battlefields. Yes, she went abroad, but was based dozens/hundreds of miles from the front line, basically just doing routine dental checks/scales&polishes etc to the soldiers and other support staff in a "pop up" dental clinic working alongside dental nurses and dentists, who likewise never went anywhere near danger zones.

My FIL spent a couple of decades working in logistics for the RAF. Again, never anywhere near active fighting. He ran various warehouses, again miles away from the front lines, organising the supplies, organising ordering of supplies, issuing supplies, etc. When he came out of the RAF he had no problem walking into a job as store manager for one of the UK's largest car manufactures, running one of their huge warehouses, which he did for the last couple of decades of his working life. He often said it was one of the safest jobs in the military as the stores/warehouses were heavily guarded and protected!

There must be several "background/support" staff for every front line soldier when you think of the medical support, logistics, catering, administration, etc.

If profession = getting splattered by cluster bombs, no, I doubt many of them would prefer that.

But with half going to uni, we're already funding half of them for their tuition fees, living costs, etc via student loans. A decent proportion of them may well prefer to learn a profession through a national service scheme, so costs would be mitigated by saving the thousands spent on their loans.

With 'will' I was referring to the will of the sectors and the authorities to make things work, not the will of the young people to do the service.

Finland is not one homogenous group of people either. There are 3 distinct groups, Finnish speaking Finns, Swedish speaking Finns, and the Sami, who were historically oppressed by the rest, with their children being forced into residential schools and language use restricted, giving them a very good reason not to want to serve the country. Also, Finland had a brutal civil war last century, which divided the country sharply into two sides - Reds and Whites, with repercussions that lasted long beyond the war. Do you know what united the country again after that? Reds and Whites having to serve together in the military in the Winter war and the Continuation war.

Agree though that the UK does not prompt much feeling of ownership and participation in many Brits. I was discussing the logistics of organising civilian service though rather than whether its socially possible in the UK.

You did indeed say that. But it was wrong because Finnish national service is different to the model being discussed in the post you replied to, as it's majority military and I was talking about something else. And you also didn't explain why something being the case in Finland (even though it isn't) would make it possible in a totally different country. It would be a bad argument even if you were talking about something that actually happens in Finland.

With respect, Finland and the UK are not alike at all.

"Will", yes fundamentally important, otherwise all you are doing is compelling a bunch of unwilling, demotivated people to do something against their will, which is not going to be conducive to the young people getting anything out of it, or the service they are supposed to be a functional part of fulfilling it's role.

The UK is a political State comprising four constituent nations. It didn't exist prior to 1707, and didn't exist in it's current form until 1801. People from the UK might describe themselves as "United Kingdomites", but in reality it isn't a nationality and the UK is not a "country" in the typical sense. For quite a while now Independence from the UK has been the preference for at least half of Scots, with that preference even more strident among Scottish people below the age of 24. How do you propose to motivate Scots youngsters to perform "National Service" for a State that the majority of them wish to see the back of? Do you think Republicans in Northern Ireland are going to willingly oblige?

There has to be some sort of feeling of ownership and participation before people will gladly think about sacrifice for the State, and for a large proportion of people in the UK, the UK prompts no such feelings.

Would I actively defend the place I live from a hostile invader? Of course, but for the simple reason I'd like to protect my family, my friends, and my compatriots. Couldn't care less about protecting the UK State though, and similarly, if it tried to compel me to participate in any form of NS, I'd opt for the prison cell at the UK State's expense instead.