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(TW : discussion of Ruth Perry's suicide) To feel uncomfortable with the way Ruth Perry's death was described as 'the fault' of Ofsted?

144 replies

Carla786 · 26/11/2025 20:42

From the evidence, it's clear that the Ofsted inspector behaved abominably and the whole organisation needs a thorough overhaul.

However, I was reading a recent thread on the Caroline Flack documentary and for all the differences, one thing that reporting of Flack's suicide has shared is that it has often explicitly laid blame for a suicide on someone else.

In Flack's case, the media have been blamed for her suicide. In Perry's case, the inquest explicitly blamed Ofsted, as did some media.

This makes me uncomfortable...maybe it's wrong of me to feel this way, but I think of the GC threads that originally drew me to MN. Threads on the reporting of suicides of trans teenagers often rightly pointed out the danger of media implying that external people/forces caused a suicide, noting that it contradicts guidelines that the Samaritans (among others) have for good reason.

Perry was an adult, but these guidelines aren't just for teenagers. I don't want to downplay the terrible way she was treated by Ofsted. But I just feel very uncomfortable about the implications of media and then the official inquest explicitly implicating Ofsted in her suicide.

Am I wrong to feel uncomfortable about this?

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FrippEnos · 26/11/2025 22:49

Carla786 · 26/11/2025 22:43

I'm sorry, I didn't mean it to be.

I meant it as a serious statement that doctors etc are inspected too but that Ofsted seems particularly pressurised and bullying. Also restrictions like the kind you mention : and one word ratings don't have the same status among hospital patients as school parents (though maybe hospital ratings should be more public, not one word though)

School inspections have moved from being supportive to being the means by which schools are punished.

I mentioned earlier about schools being forced to become academies. This has also been used to force a change in teachers work conditions as academies are not required to go by the normal standards or pay and conditions of the burgundy book or employ qualified teachers.

Also safeguarding is an area that even if all of the other areas are excellent, the school can still be failed for safeguarding issues (not necessarily a bad thing).

But again OFSTED should be a supportive not punitive process.

Carla786 · 26/11/2025 22:45

AtomicSlipper · 26/11/2025 22:43

I wonder if it's more comfortable for people to think that the inspection must have been reasonable and proportionate, really, and that the demands for change must be unreasonable, because then they don't have to acknowledge the terrible fact that someone has died who almost certainly would not have done if the system and the conduct of that inspection had been different. Perhaps they can then put it down to someone having an unreasonable reaction to something normal they think they themselves would have coped with fine, which is a more comforting thought than the idea that a system can actually go this badly wrong.

I've said in my OP that I agree the treatment of Perry was terrible and that Ofsted needs to be hugely reformed.

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AtomicSlipper · 26/11/2025 22:43

I wonder if it's more comfortable for people to think that the inspection must have been reasonable and proportionate, really, and that the demands for change must be unreasonable, because then they don't have to acknowledge the terrible fact that someone has died who almost certainly would not have done if the system and the conduct of that inspection had been different. Perhaps they can then put it down to someone having an unreasonable reaction to something normal they think they themselves would have coped with fine, which is a more comforting thought than the idea that a system can actually go this badly wrong.

Carla786 · 26/11/2025 22:43

FrippEnos · 26/11/2025 22:39

Are doctors told that they cannot discuss the results of their inspections with anyone else and told that they are not allowed to discuss the results with anybody?

I feel that your response is somewhat facetious.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean it to be.

I meant it as a serious statement that doctors etc are inspected too but that Ofsted seems particularly pressurised and bullying. Also restrictions like the kind you mention : and one word ratings don't have the same status among hospital patients as school parents (though maybe hospital ratings should be more public, not one word though)

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FrippEnos · 26/11/2025 22:42

Your link doesn't work for me.

Carla786 · 26/11/2025 22:41

Imgladyoudid · 26/11/2025 21:33

Thank you Flowers it was a long time ago now. As an adult I feel awful for his ex as well; at the time I hated her (unfairly of course) but I now realise how much more complex and difficult it all is.

I do think it was an absolute tragedy but it could have led to some genuine consideration of the stress teachers feel over OFSTED and some reforms as a result. As it is, the one word ratings are back under another guise.

I do think that the media were irresponsible in how the death was reported. There was a good article in one of the broadsheets that addressed this at the time and I am trying to find it and can’t, probably because you have to pay for it! But I will say that the message that self sacrifice is the way to get reform is a very dangerous one.

Was it this one? I didn't wholly agree (and this was pretty inquest) but I did agree with some.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/we-cant-blame-ofsted-for-ruth-perrys-death-r6twcm8js&ved=2ahUKEwjPnKib8ZCRAxXFZ0EAHQOAOiUQFnoECEEQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1qEGL-0EFiWjDdOhCFlmxS

https://www.google.com/url?opi=89978449&rct=j&sa=t&source=web&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thetimes.com%2Fuk%2Feducation%2Farticle%2Fwe-cant-blame-ofsted-for-ruth-perrys-death-r6twcm8js&usg=AOvVaw1qEGL-0EFiWjDdOhCFlmxS&ved=2ahUKEwjPnKib8ZCRAxXFZ0EAHQOAOiUQFnoECEEQAQ

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Hotflushesandchilblains · 26/11/2025 22:41

noblegiraffe · 26/11/2025 22:31

What do you think about Ruth Perry's own words?

I am not sure what point you are getting at - I said in my post that I met someone who had a breakdown because of what his role at Ofsted had become, so there is no doubt it is unfair and needs reform.

But that does not change the fact the the coroner system also has some problems.

FrippEnos · 26/11/2025 22:39

Carla786 · 26/11/2025 22:16

Yes, doctors etc get inspected but there's no equivalent quite like Ofsted, is there?

Are doctors told that they cannot discuss the results of their inspections with anyone else and told that they are not allowed to discuss the results with anybody?

I feel that your response is somewhat facetious.

Carla786 · 26/11/2025 22:36

nomas · 26/11/2025 22:34

But ‘cause’ is not the same as ‘contributed to’.

Why do you keep ignoring that point?

I see what you mean...I feel less uncomfortable with the coroner saying that then with the media reporting. I remember before the verdict there were a lot of articles putting the responsibility for her death on Ofsted.

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FrippEnos · 26/11/2025 22:36

Nowdontmakeamess · 26/11/2025 22:31

I think teachers used her death to push their own agenda of watering down OFSTED powers. Teachers can’t possibly be expected to cope with being assessed and tested on their ability to keep children safe and educate them to a reasonable standard. Never mind children being endlessly assessed, told they’ve failed if they get less than a C and not receiving anywhere near adequate support if they have learning difficulties/ND. Hypocrites.

Very little of that has to do with teachers.

Your bias is very much showing.

TwinkleTwinkleLittleBatgirl · 26/11/2025 22:35

Nowdontmakeamess · 26/11/2025 22:31

I think teachers used her death to push their own agenda of watering down OFSTED powers. Teachers can’t possibly be expected to cope with being assessed and tested on their ability to keep children safe and educate them to a reasonable standard. Never mind children being endlessly assessed, told they’ve failed if they get less than a C and not receiving anywhere near adequate support if they have learning difficulties/ND. Hypocrites.

Here’s your award for shitty irrelevant post! 🏅

Carla786 · 26/11/2025 22:34

Nowdontmakeamess · 26/11/2025 22:31

I think teachers used her death to push their own agenda of watering down OFSTED powers. Teachers can’t possibly be expected to cope with being assessed and tested on their ability to keep children safe and educate them to a reasonable standard. Never mind children being endlessly assessed, told they’ve failed if they get less than a C and not receiving anywhere near adequate support if they have learning difficulties/ND. Hypocrites.

Hmm...I'm not sure.

I do think that the teachers refusing to let in Ofsted in protest were going too far.

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nomas · 26/11/2025 22:34

Carla786 · 26/11/2025 22:31

The Samaritans guidelines say that suicide rarely has a single cause, and that focus on one thing as the cause can have a negative effect on suicidal people who read this kind of reporting.

I've linked to the guidelines upthread.

But ‘cause’ is not the same as ‘contributed to’.

Why do you keep ignoring that point?

Carla786 · 26/11/2025 22:33

Hotflushesandchilblains · 26/11/2025 22:29

I met someone who worked for Ofsted who was on stress leave because he said changed from being able to help and support schools to being expected to "catch them out" and punish them.

However, I have seen some comments from coroners over the years which I feel are uninformed or unfair. Coroners arent answerable to anyone that I can tell, and yet their statements carry a lot of weight.

Why did it change? That's horrible. I suppose the nice people like your colleague got worn down then & left, leaving aggressive people who want to put others down.

What kind of coroners' reports? In this case I'm not exactly sure if I disagree or not, but I think reporting it like that is dangerous for the reasons I said up thread.

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Nowdontmakeamess · 26/11/2025 22:31

I think teachers used her death to push their own agenda of watering down OFSTED powers. Teachers can’t possibly be expected to cope with being assessed and tested on their ability to keep children safe and educate them to a reasonable standard. Never mind children being endlessly assessed, told they’ve failed if they get less than a C and not receiving anywhere near adequate support if they have learning difficulties/ND. Hypocrites.

noblegiraffe · 26/11/2025 22:31

Hotflushesandchilblains · 26/11/2025 22:29

I met someone who worked for Ofsted who was on stress leave because he said changed from being able to help and support schools to being expected to "catch them out" and punish them.

However, I have seen some comments from coroners over the years which I feel are uninformed or unfair. Coroners arent answerable to anyone that I can tell, and yet their statements carry a lot of weight.

What do you think about Ruth Perry's own words?

Carla786 · 26/11/2025 22:31

nomas · 26/11/2025 22:29

What is your point about the Samaritan guideline? You’re not being clear at all.

The Samaritans guidelines say that suicide rarely has a single cause, and that focus on one thing as the cause can have a negative effect on suicidal people who read this kind of reporting.

I've linked to the guidelines upthread.

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Hotflushesandchilblains · 26/11/2025 22:29

I met someone who worked for Ofsted who was on stress leave because he said changed from being able to help and support schools to being expected to "catch them out" and punish them.

However, I have seen some comments from coroners over the years which I feel are uninformed or unfair. Coroners arent answerable to anyone that I can tell, and yet their statements carry a lot of weight.

nomas · 26/11/2025 22:29

Carla786 · 26/11/2025 22:20

Because I think there has been similar ignoring of the Samaritan guidelines in Perry's case, yet I haven't seen much mention of this in media or on MN.

I agree that the coroner 's report is different from media. I did feel media reporting before the coroner's report was arguably leaning towards 'Ofsted was the reason'

What is your point about the Samaritan guideline? You’re not being clear at all.

Carla786 · 26/11/2025 22:28

TwinkleTwinkleLittleBatgirl · 26/11/2025 22:20

I didn’t read any GC in that article? All very focused‘if you believe trans lives matter’ ‘she’ for male born etc?

Surely you can be GC and believe that the lives of trans people matter?

In that article, Ditum was specifically pointing out that the dangerous tactics of TWAW were worsening trans teenagers' mental health (not GC feminists, who other reports of course blamed).

Using the wrong pronouns is bad but this was 2015. Ditum was probably had great difficulty getting the piece published at all.

Ditum has been at the forefront of GC since 2015.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2016/05/what-is-gender-anyway

What is gender, anyway?

In the US and UK, politicians want to enshrine respect for "gender identity" into law. The only problem? There is no scientific consensus on what gender is.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2016/05/what-is-gender-anyway

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Carla786 · 26/11/2025 22:24

TwinkleTwinkleLittleBatgirl · 26/11/2025 22:23

why would uk media or mn focus on an American teenage boy?

I'm talking about Perry in that post.

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TwinkleTwinkleLittleBatgirl · 26/11/2025 22:23

Carla786 · 26/11/2025 22:20

Because I think there has been similar ignoring of the Samaritan guidelines in Perry's case, yet I haven't seen much mention of this in media or on MN.

I agree that the coroner 's report is different from media. I did feel media reporting before the coroner's report was arguably leaning towards 'Ofsted was the reason'

why would uk media or mn focus on an American teenage boy?

Carla786 · 26/11/2025 22:20

Allswellthatendswelll · 26/11/2025 22:14

I don't know the ins and outs of this case. It doesn't sound a great set of circumstances for a vulnerable adolescent whatever you think of trans issues.

I don't really get what it has got to do with Ruth Perry?

Because I think there has been similar ignoring of the Samaritan guidelines in Perry's case, yet I haven't seen much mention of this in media or on MN.

I agree that the coroner 's report is different from media. I did feel media reporting before the coroner's report was arguably leaning towards 'Ofsted was the reason'

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TwinkleTwinkleLittleBatgirl · 26/11/2025 22:20

Carla786 · 26/11/2025 22:15

Sarah Ditum is GC. The article is not TWAW. Why are you imputing motives that aren't there?

The article was criticising the TWAW media & its dangerous reporting of Alcorn's suicide. Did you read the article or just the headline?

I didn’t read any GC in that article? All very focused‘if you believe trans lives matter’ ‘she’ for male born etc?